Q. Where does morality come from? A. Us.

[Nomaster]

A fabulous discussion.
Especially 18:00 to 22:10

If I say that God is always good, always must be obeyed and is everywhere and everything he commands must be good then I can declare that killing my son, for example, is good.

He killed his own son and we know from the Old Testament tale of Abraham and his binding (in order to kill) Isaac.

How can any Christian believer doubt my 'goodness' in killing my son if I believe I've been commanded to do so by God. It's impossible to state it (the commandment) didn't happen and therefore any commandment by God is intrinsically good.

Watch the philosophers on the video tear apart the argument that the morals we have came from God.

They didn't. They came from us.

[Glacier]

I'm pretty sure the Romans killed Jesus, but what do I know. Of course, according to the Bible, he rose again, so it was only a temporary death, a minor blip on the timeline of eternity.

[Nomaster]

Uh uh uh.
You've forgotten the rule.
What God commands is instantly good.

Examples:
1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and *bleep*.

NUMBERS 21:3 The Lord gave the Canaanites over to Israel, who "completely destroyed them and their towns."

NUMBERS 31:17-18 God commanded Moses to kill all of the male Midianite children and "kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." The virgins were presumably raped. (NOTE: How could the soldiers know which women were virgins?)

More examples of when killing is "good" because God commanded it.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_o ... ing_people

The Good killings in the Bible.Cuz, you know, he commands you.
http://www.evilbible.com/evil-bible-hom ... the-bible/

[zzontar]

You can see how the bible has been misconstrued and rewritten to suit whoever is doing the rewriting just as we see Nomaster is doing to suit his own agenda. Too bad, it probably started out as a good book.

[youjustcomplain]

You can see how the bible has been misconstrued and rewritten to suit whoever is doing the rewriting just as we see Nomaster is doing to suit his own agenda. Too bad, it probably started out as a good book.

It still is a good book. But it does belong in the Fiction / Fantasy section of the book stores.

wait... Misconstrued? Can you please quote the actual verses from the original bible then that hasn't been misconstrued?

It appears, to me, that Nomaster is actually quoting the Christian Bible. The good good of the bible here seems all to happy to condone murder and rape. Agenda aside, please defend this position, only then can you tell us about Nomaster's agenda.

[fluffy]

Again, this perspective is rooted in the idea that "God" is an omnipotent micromanager, capable of myriad second-by-second decisions controlling every move that everyone on the planet makes. I submit that this is an outdated concept, and that those who subscribe to it are equally outdated, theist and atheist alike.

[zzontar]

It still is a good book. But it does belong in the Fiction / Fantasy section of the book stores.

wait... Misconstrued? Can you please quote the actual verses from the original bible then that hasn't been misconstrued?

It appears, to me, that Nomaster is actually quoting the Christian Bible. The good good of the bible here seems all to happy to condone murder and rape. Agenda aside, please defend this position, only then can you tell us about Nomaster's agenda.

I, like Glacier, also believe it was the Romans who killed Jesus... Nomaster would have most likely left this part out if he was rewriting it because his agenda is to show that it's God who's bad.

Take every part of the bible out that favours a group or individual and I think it will be a lot closer to the original version.

[Glacier]

You can see how the bible has been misconstrued and rewritten to suit whoever is doing the rewriting just as we see Nomaster is doing to suit his own agenda. Too bad, it probably started out as a good book.

Nomaster has no desire to master truth or to even understand anything at all about the Bible, religion, or anything else he hasn't been spoon fed from the Zeitgeist, Zealot, and any other book starting with the letter Z. When you look at the facts, Zealot was made up by a known liar. Even atheists understand he's a liar., and yet the ignorant uneducated dogmatic internet atheist continues to spew these lies.

[zzontar]

Again, this perspective is rooted in the idea that "God" is an omnipotent micromanager, capable of myriad second-by-second decisions controlling every move that everyone on the planet makes. I submit that this is an outdated concept, and that those who subscribe to it are equally outdated, theist and atheist alike.

The idea of a grey-haired old guy running around and taking notes of everyone is definitely outdated, however the idea of God as a consciousness of the Universe would make that feasible.

[zzontar]

I believe when we are born, our souls can be influenced but that's all it is is an influence which is why you can raise 2 siblings exactly the same way to have the same morals and one can turn out very nice and the other the opposite. I'm wondering what Nomaster's take on that would be.

[Nomaster]

Where does morality come from?

The Jews had no idea that murder was bad and prohibited until one guy named Moses, the 40 year wilderness walk, and then God commanded them to do/ or not do 613 specific things.

Believable story. Not really, folks.

Here is the super convincing list of Commandments GOD made for his first ever face to face conversation with humankind.

God is a superior entity who knows everything and is always good.
Here is the list of commandments to keep.

http://www.jewfaq.org/m/613.htm

[Glacier]

The Jews had no idea that murder was bad and prohibited until one guy named Moses

Oh please! Stop making stuff up! Start your own religion why don't you.

[zzontar]

I'm still waiting to hear how if morality comes from us, 2 siblings raised the same way can have completely different morals.

[fluffy]

The idea of a grey-haired old guy running around and taking notes of everyone is definitely outdated, however the idea of God as a consciousness of the Universe would make that feasible.

I don't know, it's pretty much the same thing when you start talking about "consciousness". It's trying to apply human characteristics to something that, if it does exist, is so far beyond our current level of comprehension and understanding as to defy any face we try to apply to it.

I have a feeling that there is something as yet undiscovered that ties everything together, but as I've said before I think it will be found by a physicist and not a priest.

[Nomaster]

"The Jews had no idea that murder was bad and prohibited until one guy named Moses..."

This is precisely what religionists must believe. After all, they didn't have a rule book yet.

Funny how it seems the other religions not associated with Jehovah/Allah already knew that murdering was bad and was prohibited.

Hmmm. It's like they had morals before hearing about them from the Big Guy in the Sky. That's weird.

Other religions with The Golden Rule.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule