Multi Million dollar payout to Omar Khadr

[Catsumi]

So, basically what you are saying is that you can't participate when the issue at hand has been reduced to a clearly stated proposition unless it involves name calling, labelling someone left or right, deflection and tap dancing.

Again:

1. Should a PM, present one or future PM, be involved in handing out taxpayers money away from public scrutiny?

2. When such an action is revealed to the Canadian public, and the preditable outrage follows, should the Whistleblower be chased down by that same PM and probably "dealt with" behind closed doors? He/she has a very serious axe to grind.

Now, let's put the shoe on the other foot, ok?

What if the same circumstance came about and the public found out about it BUT this time, they were overjoyed at the fine action taken by our leader at that time. He, or she, of course, blushes shyly, and says, "It was the right thing to do; I just didn't want to draw all these accolades and applause for moi".

The point one tends to overlook in such an improbable situation is what RIGHT did he/she have in doing this in the first place?

These are ethical questions to discuss. Something for mature, adult minds to ponder.

I believe we should halt this behaviour as a precedent has been set and must be reversed.

BTW, I have no political affiliations whatsoever for the simple reason that I have been disappointed once too often by campaign promises that are never kept.

"Before the election, they are at your feet. After they are elected, they are at your throats" Mark Twain.

And, you need to know nothing else about me personally.

As to me bending "a little" in your direction, that would be like dipping my hand in tar, just a "little". Compromising integrity of values has led us down this very dark path through apologizing for what one believes to be ethical in order to accommodate challengers with no skin in the game.

[Ka-El]

So, basically what you are saying is that you can't participate when the issue at hand has been reduced to a clearly stated proposition unless it involves name calling, labelling someone left or right, deflection and tap dancing.

I love irony

[Catsumi]

Please explain "irony" and why you enjoy it so much?

And, when replying, don't flood the screen with bales of stale newspaper clippings and online articles that I simply do not have a lifespan long enough to plough through.

Do you actually read them? Does anyone??

[The Green Barbarian]

Please explain "irony" and why you enjoy it so much?

And, when replying, don't flood the screen with bales of stale newspaper clippings and online articles that I simply do not have a lifespan long enough to plough through.

Do you actually read them? Does anyone??

Catsumi - I and others here appreciate what you are trying to do here, but it is a lost cause. The cowardly Trudeau apologists here are like NDP-lite, they rarely if ever put any blame whatsoever on the current Airhead in Chief, no matter how badly he screws up. They also have assigned themselves the moral highground (as usual) by waving a piece of paper that never contemplated people using Canada as a training ground of convenience for terrorist operations and claiming no matter what happens, because Justin's evil dad once offered some platitudes about the Charter, it can't be questioned. That is bunk. The Charter just like the US Constitution is a piece of paper that must always be questioned, otherwise women would still not have the right to vote and there would still be legalized slavery.

These same apologists will also pull the UN definition of "child soldier" into the discussion, once again to show how morally superior they are in order to keep stoking that warm feeling in their little liberal tummies. In short, it doesn't matter that PM Airhead paid out a terrorist, in secret. It makes no difference what he does, in secret or otherwise. He can do no wrong in the "minds" of these cowards. They cannot bend on anything that may make PM Airhead look bad. So while your points are totally valid, and your anger about this payment being made in secret (which I believe is your main issue here) you will just be hit with the usual deflection, lies, and babbling about child soldiers. It's all a smoke screen, by extremely tiny people protecting an even tinier man.

[Catsumi]

GB ....Thank you for the summary of what I was trying to accomplish here: that when an issue is stripped of everything they could possibly make political hay from, or deflect from the issue either by childish ridicule, messages typed with elbows rather than fingers, name calling or extremist labelling, they haven't got a leg to stand on, as seen by their silence. They simply cannot stick with a topic without using aforesaid crutches.

I am sure that anyone taking the time to review the last few pages will clearly see their tiresome, slanted tactics clearly.

This poster has no political affiliations, but just wants to see discussions conducted in a civil, well mannered and hopefully witty way occasionally. So many interesting threads on Castanet were spoiled by hooligans. If they truly believe in their stances they should be able to defend them with conviction and a good argument rather than childish mud slinging. I will "like" a post even if I don't particularly agree with the sentiment but applaud the clearly spoken and entertaining results. Such posts can be educational sometimes softening a hard stance by the opposer.

Anyway, I see other posters in other threads are also holding feet to the fire. Love it!

I am looking forward to an elevation in debate level. Let's make it happen!

[Ka-El]

If they truly believe in their stances they should be able to defend them with conviction and a good argument rather than childish mud slinging.

You mean like …

... a 13 year old boy abducted by his father and taken to a war zone is going to be very vulnerable and inclined to listen to and absorb everything his father (and older brother) have to tell him. The facts are:

1. Khadr was 13 years old when abducted and taken by his father from Canada to a war zone
2. He has indoctrinated by his father and brother to join their righteous cause in defending their homeland from the aggressor
3. He has known to have been tasked (by his father) with assembling IEDs, a weapon a peasant force will use in conflict against a superior military force.
4. When he was 15 years old his village was attacked by a force of Delta marines arriving by Blackhawks – most of us can only imagine the terror of this type of assault (sidewinder missiles to "soften" target, 50 cal machine guns laying cover fire).
5. He was shot and injured, and captured in Afghanistan by U.S. forces on July 27, at the 2002.
6. Delta Force soldier Christopher Speer was fatally wounded during the firefight when a grenade exploded ( a not unusual event during combat ).
7. At age 15 he was taken as a prisoner of war and in 2010 accepted a Pentagon plea deal in Guantanamo in 2010 for an eight-year-sentence and a chance to be repatriated to Canada in exchange for admitting that he threw the grenade (he considered the plea deal the only way he would ever leave Guantanamo).
8. There is now evidence based on where he was found in the compound, it would have been impossible for him to have thrown the grenade that hit Speer.

Bottom line; he was 15 years old (a child), in an active war zone indoctrinated by his father and older brother and fighting a superior military force. During an assault on his village by a force of Delta marines arriving by Blackhawks a grenade was thrown and the Americans suffered a casualty (after wiping out the village). They captured Khadr, blamed him for it and labelled him a terrorist so that he could be held indefinitely and tortured at Guantanamo. If we’re going to label Khadr a terrorist, then we have to label every single soldier who ever kills an enemy soldier in combat a terrorist also. The Canadian government grossly failed Khadr, who was at the time still a child.

As opposed to such well thought out, well-stated, non-deflecting, non-partisan and non-vitriolic arguments such as …

The cowardly Trudeau apologists here are like NDP-lite, they rarely if ever put any blame whatsoever on the current Airhead in Chief, no matter how badly he screws up. They also have assigned themselves the moral highground (as usual) by waving a piece of paper that never contemplated people using Canada as a training ground of convenience for terrorist operations and claiming no matter what happens, because Justin's evil dad once offered some platitudes about the Charter, it can't be questioned.

These same apologists will also pull the UN definition of "child soldier" into the discussion, once again to show how morally superior they are in order to keep stoking that warm feeling in their little liberal tummies. In short, it doesn't matter that PM Airhead paid out a terrorist, in secret. It makes no difference what he does, in secret or otherwise. He can do no wrong in the "minds" of these cowards. They cannot bend on anything that may make PM Airhead look bad. So while your points are totally valid, and your anger about this payment being made in secret (which I believe is your main issue here) you will just be hit with the usual deflection, lies, and babbling about child soldiers. It's all a smoke screen, by extremely tiny people protecting an even tinier man.

I am looking forward to an elevation in debate level. Let's make it happen!

Hilarious !!!

Irony is one of my favorite forms of comedy!

[Rider59]

......

... a 13 year old boy abducted by his father and taken to a war zone is going to be very vulnerable and inclined to listen to and absorb everything his father (and older brother) have to tell him. The facts are:

1. Khadr was 13 years old when abducted and taken by his father from Canada to a war zone
2. He has indoctrinated by his father and brother to join their righteous cause in defending their homeland from the aggressor
3. He has known to have been tasked (by his father) with assembling IEDs, a weapon a peasant force will use in conflict against a superior military force.
4. When he was 15 years old his village was attacked by a force of Delta marines arriving by Blackhawks – most of us can only imagine the terror of this type of assault (sidewinder missiles to "soften" target, 50 cal machine guns laying cover fire).
5. He was shot and injured, and captured in Afghanistan by U.S. forces on July 27, at the 2002.
6. Delta Force soldier Christopher Speer was fatally wounded during the firefight when a grenade exploded ( a not unusual event during combat ).
7. At age 15 he was taken as a prisoner of war and in 2010 accepted a Pentagon plea deal in Guantanamo in 2010 for an eight-year-sentence and a chance to be repatriated to Canada in exchange for admitting that he threw the grenade (he considered the plea deal the only way he would ever leave Guantanamo).
8. There is now evidence based on where he was found in the compound, it would have been impossible for him to have thrown the grenade that hit Speer.

Bottom line; he was 15 years old (a child), in an active war zone indoctrinated by his father and older brother and fighting a superior military force. During an assault on his village by a force of Delta marines arriving by Blackhawks a grenade was thrown and the Americans suffered a casualty (after wiping out the village). They captured Khadr, blamed him for it and labelled him a terrorist so that he could be held indefinitely and tortured at Guantanamo. If we’re going to label Khadr a terrorist, then we have to label every single soldier who ever kills an enemy soldier in combat a terrorist also. The Canadian government grossly failed Khadr, who was at the time still a child.

As opposed to such well thought out, well-stated, non-deflecting, non-partisan and non-vitriolic arguments such as …

Irony is one of my favorite forms of comedy!

Definition of indoctrinate
indoctrinated; indoctrinating

transitive verb

1
: to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : teach

2
: to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indoctrinate

Personally, I could care less on why, how or when he became a terrorist. The fact is, and verified by the bolded text above, that he is indeed now a terrorist due to this indoctrination.

I guess some let their guilt of being Canadian overwhelm rational thinking. Why do you think you are so much more morally superior than most here? Is it this guilt that bothers you?

[Ka-El]

Personally, I could care less on why, how or when he became a terrorist.

By what definition does a 15 year child soldier in an active combat zone (during an overwhelming military assault on his village) become a terrorist? Even if he did throw the grenade that killed Speers (and evidence shows that is unlikely), are we going to label all soldiers who fight back to defend their position (or village) as terrorists?

Why do you think you are so much more morally superior than most here?

I don't think that at all. I simply believe I am looking at the case with a much more objective and non-partisan view. As I've clearly stated before, I don't agree with the manner in which this payout was conducted. However, I am informed enough to know that Omar Khadr had a very winnable lawsuit filed against our government (due to the inactions of our previous governments) and an out of Court settlement made sense. I know the partisans don't like that, but that's the truth.

[Catsumi]

You just can't get

Still waiting for reply, sans screenload of copied trash.

C'mon, I know you can do better than that!

[Ka-El]

You just can't get

oh the irony - and you really don't see it, do you? On these threads the topic will evolve in the way it is taken by everyone participating. You don't get to take the topic in your own direction to satisfy your own agenda (you are clearly a lot more partisan than you would hope to convince everyone else) and then insist everyone play your game by your rules. You've been asked some pretty direct questions that you've chosen to ignore. As long as you think the vitriolic hyperbole and the repeated use of erroneous labels "elevates the debate level" - well, that is simply hilarious and only worth laughing at.

[the truth]

Whoa Nelly! Removed. Try again.

[christopher]

You just can't get

oh the irony - and you really don't see it, do you? On these threads the topic will evolve in the way it is taken by everyone participating. You don't get to take the topic in your own direction to satisfy your own agenda (you are clearly a lot more partisan than you would hope to convince everyone else) and then insist everyone play your game by your rules. You've been asked some pretty direct questions that you've chosen to ignore. As long as you think the vitriolic hyperbole and the repeated use of erroneous labels "elevates the debate level" - well, that is simply hilarious and only worth laughing at.

The irony of it is this case is why Canada needs to screen the people coming in to the country like his father.
I guess the other thing is should we be asking the government if its ok to take our children out of the country. Should the Government start telling people that they can not take the child out of the country.

[maryjane48]

and yet catsumi and the rest the right is silent on harper giving saudi arbia millions in weapons and saudis are a bigger threat to canada than a thousand omars would be . silent on the genocide that took place in canada against canadas first nations which to some degree is still going on. but for partisan reasons want to keep on crying about this ? this whole thread is reason why jt is going to win again and again and again .

its called lack of reason.

[the truth]

and yet catsumi and the rest the right is silent on harper giving saudi arbia millions in weapons and saudis are a bigger threat to canada than a thousand omars would be . silent on the genocide that took place in canada against canadas first nations which to some degree is still going on. but for partisan reasons want to keep on crying about this ? this whole thread is reason why jt is going to win again and again and again .

its called lack of reason.

so you made it very clear you hate jt and also hate harper so who or what side do you stand for

[The Green Barbarian]

and yet catsumi and the rest the right :

labeling people who disagree with your views is a perfect way to enable Scheer to win in 2019. Please keep doing this.