Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby Ken7 » Dec 6th, 2017, 9:05 am

pepecat wrote:
Seriously? "Weapons of mass destruction"? Ask yourself, why would N Korea want to start a war with North America or Europe or even Eastern Europe or Asia for that matter? The leader of North Korea is only marginally smarter and egotistical than the leader of the United States. You are buying into the "weapons of mass destruction" rhetoric much that same as the idiots that bought into it 20 years ago. Facts of recent warmonging are readily available on the internet for anyone who wants to educate themselves.


I'm sorry I must have been following the FAKE NEWS.

You must be missing it too, what would North Korea's bomb do to North America,,,just figure it out.

I don't think you have a clue and why would anyone be afraid of a nut like Kim Jong Un. He seems like the type all other countries have been meeting and attempting to do business with.

Trudeau might stop in there once done with his China deal...
User avatar
Ken7
Guru
 
Posts: 6337
Likes: 3467 posts
Liked in: 2428 posts
Joined: Sep 30th, 2007, 4:09 pm

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby bob vernon » Dec 6th, 2017, 9:08 am

Justin: We want free trade with China.

China: Great! We want to buy Canadian land and open mines and drill for oil. We want to bring in our own miners. We want our safety rules in the mines and oil fields. We want to pay the workers our rates of pay. We don't want those Canadian environmental laws.

Justin: We can't do that much.

China: Too bad. No deal.

Queen K likes this post.
bob vernon
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2044
Likes: 7 posts
Liked in: 1086 posts
Joined: Oct 27th, 2008, 10:37 am

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby Queen K » Dec 6th, 2017, 9:57 am

Bob Vernon, you may have sized it up perfectly. I might add, the NDP did that with Petronas.

The Globalists never counted on China getting so rich, might have to bring jobs home. Oh wait, that's what Trump said. And is it happening? Any factories moving back home yet? No? Ya, that's the price of our cheap, throw away society.
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**
User avatar
Queen K
Queen of the Castle
 
Posts: 52073
Likes: 11640 posts
Liked in: 12101 posts
Joined: Jan 31st, 2007, 12:39 pm
Location: What? You mean here?

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 6th, 2017, 10:05 am

Queen K wrote:Bob Vernon, you may have sized it up perfectly. I might add, the NDP did that with Petronas.

The Globalists never counted on China getting so rich, might have to bring jobs home. Oh wait, that's what Trump said. And is it happening? Any factories moving back home yet? No? Ya, that's the price of our cheap, throw away society.



Trump has secured many factories moving back to usa.

Foxxconn . BMW. There are many more
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Jflem1983
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3780
Likes: 7710 posts
Liked in: 2159 posts
Joined: Aug 23rd, 2015, 11:38 am

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby Queen K » Dec 6th, 2017, 10:07 am

It's not that I doubt you Jflem, but got links for everyone?
Our saddest days are when we add up our losses, and losses seem to be our saddest when we lose our best. Proud to be a "Leaf-licker" and I know who else is too. **smiles**
User avatar
Queen K
Queen of the Castle
 
Posts: 52073
Likes: 11640 posts
Liked in: 12101 posts
Joined: Jan 31st, 2007, 12:39 pm
Location: What? You mean here?

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby Omnitheo » Dec 6th, 2017, 1:52 pm

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Dec 6th, 2017, 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off topic
"The Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, every one of us, even when it is uncomfortable."
- Justin Trudeau
User avatar
Omnitheo
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3992
Likes: 5829 posts
Liked in: 2926 posts
Joined: Jul 19th, 2011, 10:10 am

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby ferri » Dec 6th, 2017, 4:45 pm

:135: :topic:
“When someone is nasty or treats you poorly, don't take it personally. It says nothing about you, but a lot about them.” ― Michael Josephson
User avatar
ferri
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 43708
Likes: 14015 posts
Liked in: 8619 posts
Joined: May 11th, 2005, 3:21 pm

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby Gone_Fishin » Dec 7th, 2017, 7:19 am

Trudeau Messes Up Another Potential Trade Deal


By Burt Schoeppe - December 7, 2017

Justin Trudeau’s Liberals are not doing very well on the international trade file. Trudeau left a recent meeting aimed at resuscitating the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) without a deal in hand. NAFTA re-negotiations are purportedly not doing well. This week Trudeau had problems with negotiations surrounding a third potential trade agreement.

Justin was in China this week to meet with Chinese Premier Li Keqiang and Chinese President Xi Jinping. After Trudeau met with Li for several hours on Monday the expected announcement of the opening of formal trade talks was not announced.

The problem for the Chinese was the Canadian demand for social justice issues as a precondition to a trade deal. As reported by the CBC:

The sticking points appear to be Canada’s insistence that labour and gender rights be part of any deal.

snip

Trudeau doubled-down on his social justice approach to trade in a speech on Wednesday. As reported by the Financial Post:

“The prime minister made it clear he wants Canada to move forward with the trade talks with China but said there needs to be an agreed framework that includes progressive elements such as gender, labour rights, and the environment.”

The Chinese have made it clear that those issues are non-starters. It isn’t clear why Trudeau continues to push those issues. Trudeau’s approach is especially troublesome when there are far bigger concerns in coming to a trade agreement with China than social justice issues.

The biggest concern is whether or not China would ultimately stick to the terms of any trade agreement.

As Maclean’s Paul Wells wrote there is:

“uncertainty as to the Chinese government’s willingness or ability to adhere to its obligations under a potential FTA.”

Perhaps the Chinese government was being realistic by stopping Trudeau in his tracks. The Chinese government clearly want no part of an ‘enforceable’ agreement that forces them to allow external scrutiny of their labour, environmental and gender laws. Many of the social justice issues Trudeau wants to foster are antithetical to the current government in Beijing.

The Canadian insistence on social issues was an absolute non-starter with the Chinese. That is especially problematic for the Liberals given their troubles on other trade deals. Canada agreed to a framework with the other parties in the TPP then declined the agreement. The rest of the TPP may bend to Trudeau’s demands, but that seems unlikely. Agreeing to a framework deal, only to decline it the next day really looks bad for the Canada.

If it were just one trade partner then the Liberals could reasonably claim the problem was with the other side. Between the TPP and China, there are 11 other countries and there are two trade deals involved. The other members of the TPP found common ground on which to meet, but the Liberals pulled out of the deal. China wouldn’t even agree to formally trade discussions with Canada after Trudeau laid out his opening position.

The enforceability of Trudeau’s desired social chapters is a key sticking point for seemingly every country that Trudeau’s government tries to negotiate a trade deal with.

The Liberal government needs to focus on economic issues and not social issues. Countries are unwilling to give up the level of sovereignty Trudeau demands in his approach to negotiations. It is time for Trudeau to change his approach to trade negotiations.

https://www.thepostmillennial.com/trude ... rade-deal/
Hey Horgan, orange and green mixed together make brown, and that's the colour of crap!

Jflem1983 likes this post.
User avatar
Gone_Fishin
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4053
Likes: 4578 posts
Liked in: 3032 posts
Joined: Sep 6th, 2006, 7:43 am

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby sixxonesixx » Dec 7th, 2017, 9:13 am

My personal take on why trade failed is Trudeau himself.
He went in talking about human rights, sexual equality, child labor etc. Like whoever in history told China what to do? Sure it's a nice thought to try but Trudeau is getting to a point where he is out of control. Sure he makes Canada look good but why doesn't he use his own "family fortune" to do it? I have no further respect for JT especially after seeing pics of a young Fidel Castro and JT himself side by side. Broke my heart to see a father and son resemble each other so much and not know it... [icon_lol2.gif] (Maggie was such a darling wasn't she?) I'm sure truth will come out when the time comes and we can all speculate. Haven't had a chance to look further but this was my first thoughts before and after FAILED trade talks....
just sayin...

Jflem1983 likes this post.
sixxonesixx
Fledgling
 
Posts: 125
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 34 posts
Joined: Jun 9th, 2007, 9:14 am

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 7th, 2017, 9:49 am

sixxonesixx wrote:My personal take on why trade failed is Trudeau himself.
He went in talking about human rights, sexual equality, child labor etc. Like whoever in history told China what to do? Sure it's a nice thought to try but Trudeau is getting to a point where he is out of control. Sure he makes Canada look good but why doesn't he use his own "family fortune" to do it? I have no further respect for JT especially after seeing pics of a young Fidel Castro and JT himself side by side. Broke my heart to see a father and son resemble each other so much and not know it... [icon_lol2.gif] (Maggie was such a darling wasn't she?) I'm sure truth will come out when the time comes and we can all speculate. Haven't had a chance to look further but this was my first thoughts before and after FAILED trade talks....
just sayin...



I always thought the little social justice dictator was mick jaggers kid.
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

Rwede likes this post.
User avatar
Jflem1983
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3780
Likes: 7710 posts
Liked in: 2159 posts
Joined: Aug 23rd, 2015, 11:38 am

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby Rwede » Dec 7th, 2017, 10:02 am

Trudeau in trade hot seat

Dan Albas - Dec 7, 2017 / 6:00 am | Story: 213430


The headlines in Ottawa this week were unrelenting:

“Trudeau’s trade deal with China turns into an embarrassment,” and “Trudeau breaks the three rules of doing business in China, leaves Beijing empty-handed” were a common theme from national media.

At issue, primarily, was a press conference in Beijing where it was widely expected that the prime minister would announce Canada and China were entering into formal trade talks.

That did not occur and it is unclear what the current status is of talks between Canada and China that are trade related.

Part of the issue rumoured to be a stumbling block is the Trudeau government’s insistence on “progressive trade."

What is “progressive trade?"

Based on the government’s own definition, it is a trade deal that also has guarantees on topics such as labour, gender and environmental rights that are not normally part of a free trade agreement.

There are many criticisms of this progressive trade policy. As an example, would Canadians accept societal values from another country demanded upon us in order to accept a trade deal?

I suspect many Canadians would not, so it is no surprise that this progressive trade approach has been rejected in NAFTA, TPP and now Chinese trade related discussions.


Why does the Liberal government insist on “progressive trade” language? It has been suggested this language is aimed at Canadians back home for political reasons. Obviously, this is also confusing for our potential trading partners.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Dan-in-Ot ... t#comments
"I don't even disagree with the bulk of what's in the Leap Manifesto. I'll put forward my Leap Manifesto in the next election." - John Horgan, 2017.

Jflem1983 likes this post.
User avatar
Rwede
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 11728
Likes: 9542 posts
Liked in: 5120 posts
Joined: May 6th, 2009, 10:49 am
Location: is everything!

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 7th, 2017, 10:09 am

Rwede wrote:Trudeau in trade hot seat

Dan Albas - Dec 7, 2017 / 6:00 am | Story: 213430


The headlines in Ottawa this week were unrelenting:

“Trudeau’s trade deal with China turns into an embarrassment,” and “Trudeau breaks the three rules of doing business in China, leaves Beijing empty-handed” were a common theme from national media.

At issue, primarily, was a press conference in Beijing where it was widely expected that the prime minister would announce Canada and China were entering into formal trade talks.

That did not occur and it is unclear what the current status is of talks between Canada and China that are trade related.

Part of the issue rumoured to be a stumbling block is the Trudeau government’s insistence on “progressive trade."

What is “progressive trade?"

Based on the government’s own definition, it is a trade deal that also has guarantees on topics such as labour, gender and environmental rights that are not normally part of a free trade agreement.

There are many criticisms of this progressive trade policy. As an example, would Canadians accept societal values from another country demanded upon us in order to accept a trade deal?

I suspect many Canadians would not, so it is no surprise that this progressive trade approach has been rejected in NAFTA, TPP and now Chinese trade related discussions.


Why does the Liberal government insist on “progressive trade” language? It has been suggested this language is aimed at Canadians back home for political reasons. Obviously, this is also confusing for our potential trading partners.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Dan-in-Ot ... t#comments



Cant wait to see how his ideas go over in the middle east.
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"
User avatar
Jflem1983
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3780
Likes: 7710 posts
Liked in: 2159 posts
Joined: Aug 23rd, 2015, 11:38 am

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 7th, 2017, 6:17 pm

The reality is:

1) Trump wants NAFTA to fail - unless he can get a completely lopsided deal.
2) Do we really want a free trade deal with China? Do we need one? Methinks not as if it is on China's terms - we won't like it.
3) The TPP was a bad deal for Canada the way the US and Japan had it structured, they made a deal and said like it or lump it. The successor deal has so far been structured on Japan's terms, and was not really in Canada's interest. Yet Canada would be the #2 economy in the deal.
4) Significant trade deals take a long time to sort out and structure as "win-win" situations. It took the Harper government a long time to advance CETA, and a fair bit of time and effort to finish it off under this government. Better to get a fair deal, which may require walking away at times, that to rush into the first one other countries "used car salesmen" throw out there.
5) Never enter into negotiations that you are not prepared to walk away from. Never appear over anxious for a deal you would like to make.

Why rush into a bad deal?

Add into the mix that CETA is just now starting to impact our economy.

Add also that US protectionism that is outside of NAFTA, is not hurting the Canadian economy at this point. Our BC softwood lumber suppliers have actually been given a reverse gift by Trump and his protectionism, they are selling less volume at a time when the fires have reduced their ability to supply, but getting the spiked price that happened because of Trump's protectionism. In the end, the $$$ volume of sales is actually up! Given less stumpage to pay for the increased $$$, I would guess that profits may also be up.

There doesn't seem to be any urgency in getting new deals sorted, so go for better deals. Unemployment in Canada is down, GDP is up, perhaps to the extent of a January interest rate hike.

I'm thinking we have enough trade deals. Yes, if NAFTA goes down, the pressure for new deals may mount a bit, but don't forget that CUSFTA sits in the background. Plus I don't think it would be terribly difficult to set a Canada-Mexico agreement with the old NAFTA as a template + some improvements.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis
hobbyguy
Guru
 
Posts: 7850
Likes: 2121 posts
Liked in: 7937 posts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 9:10 pm

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby Ken7 » Dec 7th, 2017, 7:14 pm

Didn't work as well as expected. Did he go to the lying dance or lion dance on his last day?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Ken7
Guru
 
Posts: 6337
Likes: 3467 posts
Liked in: 2428 posts
Joined: Sep 30th, 2007, 4:09 pm

Re: Trudeau fails in Chinese trade talks - gets plain socks

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 7th, 2017, 8:46 pm

This article gives a bit more perspective: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-doubling-down-on-progressive-trade-approach-as-trudeau-returns-from-china-without-deal/article37260247/

"In an interview on Thursday, Ms. Hajdu said Canada will stick with its approach .

"Canada's going to continue to push on the perspective of labour and ensuring protection for Canadian workers in all of our trade deals," she said. "We cannot have a race to the bottom, regardless of which country we're negotiating with."

Ms. Hajdu said ensuring workers are protected in the countries that Canada trades with has the effect of also protecting jobs at home.

"When you don't protect the rights of workers through strong labour standards, what you do is create an unlevel playing field. And what we don't want is we don't want companies or organizations, through trade agreements, to be able to move their work force to countries that have weaker labour standards than ours, largely motivated by profit. What that does is it's obviously bad for workers in that country, but it's very bad for Canadian workers as well.""

That actually goes to the heart of one of my objections to free trade. IF you cut a deal with a low wage low standards country, then you open the door to rampant offshoring of jobs and it winds up being a deal to import poverty. IF on the other hand, you can get the necessary agreement to improve wages, the standard of living for workers, and harmonization of things like environmental standards, it becomes more of a fair trade deal, and will develop the other country into a solid trading partner over time.

My other objection is the fact that these "free trade" deals tend to be "free trade and investment deals" and that last part only benefits the very wealthy and creates problems.

I have less of a problem with deals with Europe and the US as wages and standards have significant similarity.

In the end, I don't care if we cut a deal with China.

It is also worth noting that China does NOT list Canada as negotiating an FTA at all, just as being at the "feasibility study" stage. http://fta.mofcom.gov.cn/english/
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis
hobbyguy
Guru
 
Posts: 7850
Likes: 2121 posts
Liked in: 7937 posts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 9:10 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Canada

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests