Modular housing coming

[OllyV]

The problem is that no elected official ever keeps their promises and can never be trusted. Look at all the media that list true stories of them sitting down with wealthy business owners or breaking a promise like canceling site c. If the your average joe didn't weigh in, imagine how much worse it would be.

If only the good honest folks in the public who never let personal interest and biases enter their discourse would run for office. Then everything would be perfect.

Sorry, I see the exact same problem with the revolving door of public outcry over every single project that is attempted in Penticton and Summerland.

The complaineratti will soon have their way though. All development will go elsewhere.
Then the same group who shut every development down with public protest will complain about how their elected officials let them down by letting their community die.

They won't see their role in it. Because the good old common man/woman is always right.

For every helpful voice in the community there are ten useless, bored individuals who just want to rise against something.

[OllyV]

I completely disagree with your comments. Imagine if the public had not gotten involved regarding Skaha Park.

I had that one in mind when I made my statement.

There are a lot of qualified people out there in the public who have valuable input.

Then they should run for office or go work for the city because, by some miracle, none of the valuable qualified people ever seem to be in the right positions.

Just because someone works at the city or Govt, doesn't mean that they are experts at anything.

Then, as I said, vote them out.
Or, better yet, run yourself and make sure that qualified, unbiased folks are in charge.
Don't find fault, find remedy. No community is ever improved by the constant resistance to progress.

[Bsuds]

Then, as I said, vote them out.
Or, better yet, run yourself and make sure that qualified, unbiased folks are in charge.
Don't find fault, find remedy. No community is ever improved by the constant resistance to progress.

You do realize that the vast majority of Gov't employees endorsing/making these decisions are not voted into their jobs.

Other than that I agree.

[Jhunter199]

Twobits tries to put forth the idea that only poor commit crimes but facts call that false.

Escobar al capone. Ma bouchier. etc etc were all rich

Nowhere in the comment did it say only the poor commit crimes... What post are you reading?
What was said is that the crime rate will increase in the area it is built. Why? because statistics from the last 2 built and operated by BC housing have seen that outcome.

[OllyV]

You do realize that the vast majority of Gov't employees endorsing/making these decisions are not voted into their jobs.

Other than that I agree.

I do.
I was responding to the comment specifically about elected officials.
In my OP I did mention that government employees needed to be replaced if they failed their communities.
I realize they are harder to get at. But we can choose to not reelect those who hire or appoint them.

However, to my original point, if we oppose every development that comes along then it doesn't matter who is in power.
Unfortunately, we are in the age of overreacting and opposing things that would, in reality, not harm the community in a fraction of the way they are portrayed to by their vocal opposers.

I wish these well meaning resisters would put their energy into resisting urban sprawl of over sized single family dwellings into the mountains and in support of inner city densification. Or how about opposing more and more box stores popping up everywhere.

Sadly, they live in all those crappy 'communities' sprawling up the mountains and they shop in those box stores...

[southy]

The complaineratti will soon have their way though. All development will go elsewhere.Then the same group who shut every development down with public protest will complain about how their elected officials let them down by letting their community die.They won't see their role in it. Because the good old common man/woman is always right.For every helpful voice in the community there are ten useless, bored individuals who just want to rise against something.

Quite the judgement there OllyV. I don't think I'm useless, own a business, have a family, pay taxes, volunteer, donate to community causes, totally not bored as I always have something to do. And no, I do not want to rise against every something. Only those issues that effect me and in my opinion the community at large. There is absolutely nothing wrong with voicing an opinion and asking questions about what goes on in our city. Whether that's by-laws, taxation, development, social issues, etc. Tell me you are not so naïve to not know how big business works? How elected civic politicians work, provincial and federal as well. Tell me you don't put 100% trust in what you are being told? Political visuals are always so entertaining aren't they OllyV? You can bet I will not be handing in my Complaineratti membership card any time soon.

[twobits]

Twobits tries to put forth the idea that only poor commit crimes but facts call that false.

Escobar al capone. Ma bouchier. etc etc were all rich

Are you for real? Escobar, Capone, and Ma did not profit from breaking into backyard sheds, cars, and homes of common folk that saved for months to buy that computer, cordless drill, or welder. We are talking petty crime here that impacts simple people committed by losers for nothing more than getting their next fix. They steal things that do not surpass the value of the insurance deductible and 5% penalty on the insurance premium for the next five yrs so no claim is made but they have incurred a very real financial loss. The cost of the door kicked in or the car window broken out are just insult to injury.
But people like you think petty crime like this should be understood because they are "poor". News flash for ya. The people they are terrorizing in South Penticton are not rich, live in some very modest housing, and are mostly retired pensioners.
The losers victimizing these people are the lowest of the low. And the BC Housing Authority has clustered about 200 of them in one residential area.

[twobits]

I do.
I was responding to the comment specifically about elected officials.
In my OP I did mention that government employees needed to be replaced if they failed their communities.
I realize they are harder to get at. But we can choose to not reelect those who hire or appoint them.

You do realize that Gov't employee's are union protected and almost impossible to get rid of unless they make a sexual comment at work or get caught with kiddie porn on their home computer. Both of which would still probably attract an attractive severance package at taxpayer expense. So.....getting rid of the elected official that hired them doesn't remove the problem.

However, to my original point, if we oppose every development that comes along then it doesn't matter who is in power.
Unfortunately, we are in the age of overreacting and opposing things that would, in reality, not harm the community in a fraction of the way they are portrayed to by their vocal opposers.

I wish these well meaning resisters would put their energy into resisting urban sprawl of over sized single family dwellings into the mountains and in support of inner city densification. Or how about opposing more and more box stores popping up everywhere.

Sadly, they live in all those crappy 'communities' sprawling up the mountains and they shop in those box stores...

Wow! What a load of hypocrisy......"if we oppose every development that comes along then it doesn't matter who is in power." Yet you then go on to trash what you consider urban sprawl in "oversized single family homes". Is that also not development? Does it not also create jobs and taxes? And you oppose it. Seems to me that you are as selective in your opinion of what is acceptable development is no different than those that opposed the commercial development of Skaha Park. You also have the stones to believe no one should shop at a box store to save a few shekels and they should also all conform to living in a cramped townhouse or condo with no yard for the kids to be raised. We don't live in Hong Kong, We live in a Country with the largest land mass in the world. We can afford to have a home with a yard. It seems to me that perhaps you can't and expect everyone else to live in your style of housing situation. I have no problem with people that choose that kind of housing arrangement. I do however have a problem with people like you that want to take away the choice of housing space and a yard if that is what they choose and are willing and able to pay for it. And just look at what the PIB is doing. The population that are self described stewards of our lands. They are building one of the largest residential communities in recent years......all million dollar single family dwelling on their own lot. They are developing land for car dealerships and box stores. But we shouldn't do it on this side of the channel in your opinion eh? You are either gullible or wanting in reality.

[OllyV]

Twobits:

Did you really just defend urban sprawl and mcmansions over densification? And box stores over smaller sole proprietor business'?

See what I mean? Everyone has a different vision for their community.
Personally, I wouldn't choose either of those things for building a better community with our geographic limitations.

And did you also begrudge the PIB for taking advantage of the very approach to development you just defended? Okay, I guess.
I didn't offer an opinion that included the channel as any kind of defining factor. That was you. Not sure where that came from.

Back to my OP, if you don't see this ultra liberalism idea that everyone has an equally valuable viewpoint on every topic as part of the problem with the world today then I guess we see things differently.

Is relying on elected officials and appointed professionals perfect? No, of course it isn't. No one is making that argument.
However, is opening everything up to endless public debate going to help us be competitive locally, provincially, nationally and globally? I guess we are going to find out because that definitely seems to be the way things are going.

I know locally, I don't see it serving us well over the long run. Even in the short term we are watching other communities take better advantage of their natural resources (mostly I am referring to climate and geography here).
Across BC, and particularly the Okanagan, you see communities thriving in thoughtful ways we aren't even touching on in Penticton and Summerland.

Anyway, judging from your fatalist view of democracy, I guess we are all screwed either way.

[OllyV]

Quite the judgement there OllyV. I don't think I'm useless, own a business, have a family, pay taxes, volunteer, donate to community causes, totally not bored as I always have something to do. And no, I do not want to rise against every something. Only those issues that effect me and in my opinion the community at large. There is absolutely nothing wrong with voicing an opinion and asking questions about what goes on in our city. Whether that's by-laws, taxation, development, social issues, etc. Tell me you are not so naïve to not know how big business works? How elected civic politicians work, provincial and federal as well. Tell me you don't put 100% trust in what you are being told? Political visuals are always so entertaining aren't they OllyV? You can bet I will not be handing in my Complaineratti membership card any time soon.

No one said you were useless. In fact I don't recall saying anything about YOU. You thought it was about you.
That's kind of my point.

And no one said politics and professionals are perfect either, but that is no reason to allow mob rule.

It doesn't really matter what we say here I suppose. Liberal humanism has decided for us that the needs of the individual outweigh the needs of the community so this idea that every voice is equally valuable in every discussion isn't going away anytime soon.

We can see the effects of it all over the place. Just try and be aware of its influence and don't solely blame the usual suspects (politician's and professionals) when the impact of giving every voice equal merit becomes a reality.

[southy]

No you didn't say it was me directly, but you did paint anyone who might have a concern with an issue as a complaineratti so that means you are labelling me simply because I have a suspicion that a certain issue might not really be at face value.

Mob rule? Seriously?? I think not. Simply look at what has transpired with in that big white building on Main Street over the past 2 and half years. If taxpayers just sat back who knows where the hell this COMMUNITY would be. These are concerns, real concerns being voiced about COMMUNITY NEEDS!

You say
"Just try and be aware of its influence and don't solely blame the usual suspects (politician's and professionals) when the impact of giving every voice equal merit becomes a reality."

Usually that blame of the usual suspects comes after they have voiced their reality or already made a decision without voicing their intent.

I for one will continue to watch, look and listen and you can be sure I will be voicing my opinion!

[twobits]

Twobits:

Did you really just defend urban sprawl and mcmansions over densification? And box stores over smaller sole proprietor business'?

Well I guess you could say I did. It appears that the difference between you and I is that I believe people should have a free choice in the type of housing they choose to live in and where they choose to shop. It is called a free society. I do not want people like yourself telling me that I must live in a box with a common hallway or driveway and no yard for my kids to play in. I don't want to worry about some perv exposure for my kids just to get to get to a patch of green space 6 blocks away without my supervision when it can be outside my back door. I don't like people like you that think I should live next to a bike lane or bus stop when I can afford a vehicle....that might even be electric. I don't like people like you that tell me I can't shop at a box store if that means the price I pay for what I want will be more affordable.
Quite frankly, your views border on Communism where everyone should accept a model of living and consumption habit for the greater good.
Bottom line for me is that you and all others that think like you are trying to impose some kind of David Suzuki society on us and that makes you the south end of a north bound Mule.

[OllyV]

Well twobits... as I said we are going to see.

Back to the idea in my original post. If you really believe what you just wrote then what gives you the right to stand in the way of another individual doing exactly what you just said?

Perhaps a waterslide or a multifamily development is their vision for the community. "It is called a free society."
Unless you don't agree with what they want to do then a more authoritarian approach suits you fine.

Be careful of what you oppose today, because tomorrow someone may oppose something that really does matter to you.

And perhaps it is time to look at a new ism. How is good old capitalism working for everyone these days? Turning out just like the dream? I guess it depends which side of the spectrum you are on.

[OllyV]

If taxpayers just sat back who knows where the hell this COMMUNITY would be. These are concerns, real concerns being voiced about COMMUNITY NEEDS!

Well, at least you aren't over reacting.

Likely the community would be just fine. Some developments/projects would work great some not so much.

But life would go on and maybe, maybe just maybe the community would be improved by some of the things that have been stopped.

We'll never know now.
As I was saying before, it is really unfortunate that all the people who know exactly what is best don't get involved in the building and creating rather than just mobilizing the resistance.

It would be interesting to see what they would add rather than just what they take away.

[southy]

It would be interesting to see what they would add rather than just what they take away.

Well, this isn't going to go anywhere because you see Olly - it's your perception that everyone is taking away, maybe, just maybe you are wrong and what you see as being taken away is actually adding something positive. We could argue this point forever, but not today I've got last minute shopping to do. Still have a few of those crisp brown ones left that the government hasn't taken yet. And by the time I'm finished I'm sure it will be time for a little night - CAP -sim .