Another winery bites the dust

Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby Fancy » Jan 14th, 2018, 4:57 pm

Cactusflower wrote:p[lease stop cherry-picking (pun intended) quotes from my comments. Here is what I wrote:
"Was it a viable business? When did it stop being a viable business? Or was it still a viable business when they decided to tear out the fruit trees and plant grape vines?"

Here's something else you misquoted. When I wrote that these people may not have fallen on hard times, you assumed I meant they DID fall on hard times. It appears that reading is not the strong suit of some members here. ....

Is there anything else you don't understand?

You're the one making the comments - why? It's all about how you broach a topic and the way some are perceiving your comments which tend to be on the negative side.
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby Fancy » Jan 14th, 2018, 4:58 pm

Cactusflower wrote:Who didn't see this coming? I wonder how much it's going to cost to rip out all the grapevines and replant fruit trees? That's the only way they're going to sell a vineyard in the Okanagan now. Serves them right for jumping on a collapsing bandwagon.

How can this not be seen as a negative? Why are you expecting the grapevines to be ripped out?
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby Fancy » Jan 14th, 2018, 5:00 pm

Cactusflower wrote:[They had their grand opening in 2013, just four years of production before they put the business up for sale. Unless we're interested buyers, we'll never know why they put it up for sale, so any further discussion along that line is pointless.

Which begs the question why the assumption another winery bites the dust?
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby twobits » Jan 14th, 2018, 7:08 pm

Fancy wrote:Which begs the question why the assumption another winery bites the dust?


Anyone that has followed any of my comments would know that I would be one of the very last people to be on the same side of any argument that Cactus would be on. And I do not agree that vineyards will be ripped out and replanted with fruit trees. That is just stupid.
So many wineries are in transition of ownership now. People don't see it though because it is not public info most of the time. The reality is the market is saturated right now and the biggest problem right now is the money many of these wineries borrowed to plant and build. It is not cheap to convert an orchard to vines with the first possible hope of a saleable grape being 3 to 4 yrs. That has carrying costs on financing. In the past five years, there have been court ordered sales of 5 or 6 wineries just on Naramata Rd. The industry expanded too fast for product demand.
Will it survive, continue, and probably flourish? Yeah. But there is going to be some serious consolidation. It has to happen for it to flourish because the cost of production is too high for the model as it now exists. A few wineries are selling out their vintages but the majority cannot sell out their ready to consume wine and are being forced to store it. It is not about storing for vintage, it is bottle ready for sale and it is in storage because there is no market for it at the price required. BC wines pretty much only have BC as their market. A small percentage leaves our borders. What bottles of BC wine can compete with Californian wines on price point of equal quality in the US even with an 80 cent dollar. Few if any. And our laws won't even allow it to cross Provincial borders without a levy.
Bottom line, no matter how much some of you think the BC Wine industry is a picture of health and wealth, the reality is that most of it is a gross illusion that people are clinging to right now because that is the image being sold.
It will survive. It makes some fabulous wine too. The valuations however are just absurd right now for the return on capital.
I have to wonder too if these sales are for the company shares including accumulated debt net of CCA so the owner can pay off the bank and walk away with just the shirt on their back.
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby Queen K » Jan 14th, 2018, 7:14 pm

What most of us are most derisive of is Cactusflowers trolling comment that they deserve to lose it all by having to sell.

Her attitude over this one particular couple who are in no way shape or form, invited gleeful distain she has demonstrated.
Could it be that a whole life can shift the day one starts telling the truth about what makes one happy?

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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby twobits » Jan 14th, 2018, 7:29 pm

Queen K wrote:What most of us are most derisive of is Cactusflowers trolling comment that they deserve to lose it all by having to sell.

Her attitude over this one particular couple who are in no way shape or form, invited gleeful distain she has demonstrated.


I agree 100%. Nothing based in reality of the actual industry and instead gleeful that someone that isn't growing apples and couldn't make it growing apples deserves to fail for trying something else.
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby cr125 » Jan 14th, 2018, 7:41 pm

Maybe they are going to put their money into the next money making crop, Marijuana :up:

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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby Cactusflower » Jan 14th, 2018, 9:34 pm

twobits wrote:
Queen K wrote:What most of us are most derisive of is Cactusflowers trolling comment that they deserve to lose it all by having to sell.

Her attitude over this one particular couple who are in no way shape or form, invited gleeful distain she has demonstrated.


I agree 100%. Nothing based in reality of the actual industry and instead gleeful that someone that isn't growing apples and couldn't make it growing apples deserves to fail for trying something else.


Nope. Anyone who knows me personally also knows that I'm the last person to gloat over someone else's misfortune. I just see the naivete of some of the commenters here and can't stop myself from trying to set them straight about things they think they have superior knowledge of, but obviously don't. Then they get their knickers in a twist because I call a spade a bleepin' shovel.

Too bad, too sad. I have more important things to do with my time. I'll check back from time to time when I need a chuckle.
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby JagXKR » Jan 14th, 2018, 10:35 pm

I'll check back from time to time when I need a chuckle.


Sounds like trolling.
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby fluffy » Jan 15th, 2018, 4:52 am

I know a couple who bought an existing winery with their retirement nest-egg, re-branded, won a few awards and sold at a tidy profit, just to turn around and start again with a new winery. I think there's a lot of horsetrading going on in the industry, a lot of it based on the strength of a label. There's also a lot of big corporation money moving into the valley, and has been for years. I think to assume that as winery is failing because it is for sale is a big leap of logic.
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby oneh2obabe » Jan 15th, 2018, 5:31 am

Andrew Peller Limited purchased 3 Okanagan wineries at the end of last year. No reason they couldn't consider purchasing more if they think a particular winery for sale would fit with their existing brands.
Last edited by oneh2obabe on Jan 15th, 2018, 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby Fancy » Jan 15th, 2018, 5:43 am

Cactusflower wrote:. I just see the naivete of some of the commenters here and can't stop myself from trying to set them straight about things they think they have superior knowledge of, but obviously don't.
I see no one here getting their knickers in a knot but what would make you think you need to set people straight? You know this happened:
oneh2obabe wrote:Andrew Peller Limited purchased 3 Okanagan wineries at the end of last year. No reason they could consider purchasing more if they think a particular winery for sale would fit with their existing brands.
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby LANDM » Jan 15th, 2018, 5:55 am

Cactusflower wrote:Nope. Anyone who knows me personally also knows that I'm the last person to gloat over someone else's misfortune.

Too bad, too sad. I have more important things to do with my time. I'll check back from time to time when I need a chuckle.


And yet, in your first post you clearly stated:
Serves them right for jumping on a collapsing bandwagon.


I also will check your posts when I need a contradictory and incorrect chuckle, since you were, in fact, the first, not the last to gloat over someone else’s misfortunes.

"Gleaning fruit".......bwahahahaha [icon_lol2.gif]

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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby RupertBear » Jan 15th, 2018, 8:54 am

There are still plenty of opportunities out there. One winery that I know of is bottling and labeling one of their wines exclusively for Save On Foods, for sale only at the food store’s wine section.
The store gets a unique product and the winery gets an open-ended order.
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Re: Another winery bites the dust

Postby stuphoto » Jan 16th, 2018, 3:13 am

I am wondering how the new marijuana laws are going to effect the wine sales, and if some winery owners are selling in anticipation of rough times ahead.
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