Notley Slams BC Oil Move

[CapitalB]

could you explain exactly why solar is "cleaner" than coal? I'd be interested in seeing your "mental gymnastics" on that one. If you are just going to babble on about the man-made climate change myth, at least take into account the amount of gases that are emitted building the stupid solar panels, if you want to have some semblance of creditability.

If I understand your problems with solar from your previous posts you have an issue with the impact of creating the photovoltaic solar cells, is that correct?

To address that specific issue quickly; Yup most of the solar cells are made without a lot of oversight in this department. Some companies however a few (chiefly yingly and solarworld) are pretty transparent about their material sources and chemical process'. I think this shows that they can be made well but often they arent. Though if we were to use these it would be good for the country to legislate solar so only fair trade and transparent practice type companies could sell in canada.

To really get around that issue though I would suggest looking into solar thermal energy. At its simplest a bunch of mirrors boil some water and use the steam to generate energy. Its very similar to how coal has been used for decades and is completely clean, assuming mirrors, glass, water, and sunshine are obtained in a humane manner.

The trouble with solar thermal vs solar cells is that the cells can be put just about anywhere, some of them are even being designed into window glass. They provide a huge variety of options for placement whereas the thermal type basically needs a fair amount of ground space, though there are designs for more vertical types but ~.

[Omnitheo]

Wind turbines do not kill millions birds.




Oils fields rank just as highly if not higher for bird deaths (still far under Windows, radio towers and cats),
And single incidents like Exxon Valdez can skyrocket that number.

[The Green Barbarian]

Wind turbines do not kill millions birds.
.

Good grief. Lying isn't going to stop the millions of bird deaths.

[CapitalB]

In other words, for every one bird killed by a wind turbine, nuclear and fossil fuel powered plants killed 2,118 birds.

[Omnitheo]

Cognitive Bias

A cognitive bias is a systematic pattern of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment.[1] Individuals create their own "subjective social reality" from their perception of the input. An individual's construction of social reality, not the objective input, may dictate their behaviour in the social world.[2] Thus, cognitive biases may sometimes lead to perceptual distortion, inaccurate judgment, illogical interpretation, or what is broadly called irrationality.[3][4][5]

Could do a case study on forum members here. Note evidence provided to give numbers of bird deaths contrary to what poster claimed, poster then ignored facts and fixated on a single comment that did not match their constructed reality.

[The Green Barbarian]

In other words, for every one bird killed by a wind turbine, nuclear and fossil fuel powered plants killed 2,118 birds.

Are these birds you speak of raptors, bats, and puffins?

[The Green Barbarian]

Note evidence provided to give numbers of bird deaths contrary to what poster claimed, poster then ignored facts and fixated on a single comment that did not match their constructed reality.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is such a giant load of crap. Myself and other posters have posted countless documentation about how idiotic wind turbines kill millions of birds, especially endangered birds. I get it, you and your horrible gang of Big Green losers want to put your heads in the sand, or up your own butts, and ignore the problem, and to continue to perpetuate the slaughter. It's just so freaking hypocritical and disgusting. You should hang your head in shame.



http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/n ... ought.html

Eagles are not the only victims. Smallwood also estimated that Altamont killed an average of 300 red-tailed hawks, 333 American kestrels and 380 burrowing owls annually – plus even more non-raptors, including 2,526 rock doves and 2,557 western meadowlarks.

In 2012, breaking the European omerta on wind farm mortality, the Spanish Ornithological Society (SEO/Birdlife) reviewed actual carcass counts from 136 monitoring studies. They concluded that Spain’s 18,000 wind turbines are killing 6-18 million birds and bats yearly.

Extrapolating that and similar (little publicized) German and Swedish studies, 39,000 U.S. wind turbines would not be killing “only” 440,000 birds (USFWS, 2009) or “just” 573,000 birds and 888,000 bats (Smallwood, 2013), but 13-39 million birds and bats every year!

However, this carnage is being covered up by self-serving and/or politically motivated government agencies, wind industry lobbyists, environmental groups and ornithologists, under a pile of misleading studies paid for with more taxpayer money.

[Merry]

The following facts are from a very good website that I think everyone should go read.

On our Pacific Coast, Canadian Tankers transport 6 Millions Tons per year, whereas U.S. tankers transport 37 Million Tons.

Tankers currently represent about 2% of total ship traffic visiting the Port of Vancouver (out of 250 total vessels per month, about 5 are tankers). The Government of Canada’s recent approval of the Trans Mountain Expansion Project is expected to increase the number of tankers visiting the Port of Vancouver from around 5 to around 34 per month. In this scenario, tankers would represent about 14% of total ship traffic.

While there is justifiable concern for the potential of an oil spill, the volume and frequency of oil spills has been decreasing globally since the 1970s.

Tanker safety has improved with new regulations, more robust ship design codes, enhanced emergency preparedness and response systems, and better self-regulation and procedures. These developments have coincided with a notable drop in marine shipping accidents worldwide and in Canada, as well as fewer oil spills.

Overall, 67% of ship-source oil spills in Canadian waters from 2003 to 2012 were between 100 and 1,000 litres. Of the larger spills (those 10,000 litres or greater), 78% involved fuel oil rather than oil being carried as cargo. As such, oil tanker cargo was not the source of most of these spills

https://clearseas.org/tankers/

[The Green Barbarian]

If I understand your problems with solar from your previous posts you have an issue with the impact of creating the photovoltaic solar cells, is that correct?

More I have an issue with are Big Green liars claiming that solar panels are "Zero emission". This is just plain lying. I do have less of a problem with solar than I do wind turbines though, as I see solar panels actually contributing to some extent to small user power needs, especially in places like Hawaii and other warm climates, where their sun exposure is quite extensive. It's wind turbines that I just think are the worst. Just massive wastes of taxpayer resources, for zero gain to anyone, and much suffering by birds and bats.

I was in Hawaii last week and drove by this wind farm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawi_Wind_Farm

None of the turbines were turning at the time, and it actually looked like the entire farm was shut down, as the turbines looked in shabby condition. The turbines are placed right in the path of trade winds, which are also used by migratory birds. This is why there is a problem. You are placing a giant blender right in these birds' paths. How anyone can't see this is a problem is a testament to just how hypocritical the supporters of wind turbines are. Just awful.

[CapitalB]

More I have an issue with are Big Green liars claiming that solar panels are "Zero emission". This is just plain lying. I do have less of a problem with solar than I do wind turbines though, as I see solar panels actually contributing to some extent to small user power needs, especially in places like Hawaii and other warm climates, where their sun exposure is quite extensive. It's wind turbines that I just think are the worst. Just massive wastes of taxpayer resources, for zero gain to anyone, and much suffering by birds and bats.

I was in Hawaii last week and drove by this wind farm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawi_Wind_Farm

None of the turbines were turning at the time, and it actually looked like the entire farm was shut down, as the turbines looked in shabby condition. The turbines are placed right in the path of trade winds, which are also used by migratory birds. This is why there is a problem. You are placing a giant blender right in these birds' paths. How anyone can't see this is a problem is a testament to just how hypocritical the supporters of wind turbines are. Just awful.

Its early tech yet but we could always try to invest in bladeless bird friendly wind power devices as described by the american bird conservation society. Aside from that some birds seem better than others at learning to avoid the giant spinning blades but yeah its definitely an issue that should be examined. Though as the article I posted indicates there are definitely options available to minimize the issues presented. As usual I'm pretty sure some smart legislation and investment on the subject can solve most of its problems.

[Omnitheo]

Savetheeagles makes a lot of sensational claims. Even the writing of their articles indicates clear emotional and ideological bias. Their numbers are completely out of whack with all other studies. Something indicated in the other links which have been shared here. They are about as valid as a source of unbiased information as dogsbite.org. Again though, it is interesting that you and others choose to fixate on wind farms as a bird killer, while completely ignoring the greater numbers killed by your other alternative sources of energy.

Such as oil, and incidents like the exxon Valdez. Something we do not want here in BC.

[alanjh595]

How many birds are killed by HydroElectric dams every year? Where in BC is oil used to fire electric power plants?

[The Green Barbarian]

Savetheeagles makes a lot of sensational claims. Even the writing of their articles indicates clear emotional and ideological bias. Their numbers are completely out of whack with all other studies. Something indicated in the other links which have been shared here. They are about as valid as a source of unbiased information as dogsbite.org.

LOL - as usual when caught in a lie, you attack the source. How predictable.

Save the Eagles wasn't the source of the millions of birds comment. It was the Spanish Ornithological Society - the study was even referenced in "Nature" magazine, which I know is an approved magazine of the Big Green types. So no, their numbers aren't "out of whack", it's just you being a giant freaking hypocrite, and liar.

https://www.nature.com/news/the-trouble ... nd-1.10849

Again though, it is interesting that you and others choose to fixate on wind farms as a bird killer, while completely ignoring the greater numbers killed by your other alternative sources of energy.

Oh barf. Sorry, but I'm not the one virtue-signalling about the environment and how we have to "end dependence of fossil fuels" like most wind turbine advocates, while completely ignoring needless millions of bird deaths and entire species being wiped out. Your comment is ridiculous. If the oil sands are wiping out entire species of eagles and bats, like wind turbines are then that is a problem. Are they? I don't know. Are they killing more birds than wind turbines as you claim? It would be interesting to see. But sheer volume isn't really the issue here. It's the types of birds that idiotic wind turbines are killing. And that's the issue.

[JagXKR]

Not all was "eaten". The bottom of the ocean south of Anchorage has a large area with a paved bottom. Sure, it'll come back eventually once enough fallout settles on top of it, but there are few fish in that area.


And today, oh no! What if this was a tanker in a big winter storm with 10 metre waves:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.4516087

Yeah, I know it's from a leftist news site. So it must be fake.

Not fake news but liars. Showing a picture of Haida Gwaii islands when the vessel is nowhere near the picture. It is so far from HG that is beyond the horizon. But the Communist Broadcasting Collusion chose to show a pic of the island.

As for the fish:

https://www.alaskapublic.org/2017/06/09 ... ies-crash/

[The Green Barbarian]

Its early tech yet but we could always try to invest in bladeless bird friendly wind power devices as described by the american bird conservation society. Aside from that some birds seem better than others at learning to avoid the giant spinning blades but yeah its definitely an issue that should be examined. Though as the article I posted indicates there are definitely options available to minimize the issues presented. As usual I'm pretty sure some smart legislation and investment on the subject can solve most of its problems.

At least you acknowledge the issue, which is a start. The bigger issue is that these wind turbines just don't generate much power, and yet cost the taxpayers mega millions. And they'll always be that way, due to the intermittent nature of the power they generate. Just look at the problems in Ontario. Just a giant rip-off of taxpayers.