Where's Trudeau?

Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 9th, 2018, 12:41 pm

Cactusflower wrote:
Dilbit transportation should be banned in Canada, but Trudeau will never do that because (again IMHO) he has been bought by China and Big Oil.


LOL! Yes, it's all a conspiracy. That's got to be it. It can't be because a tiny minority of Canadians are delusional and are horribly wrong and can't do math. I still want to hear how Alberta could survive on windmills and solar power after shutting down all oil production. That would be a completely hilarious read.
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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby CapitalB » Feb 9th, 2018, 12:46 pm

The Green Barbarian wrote:
LOL! Yes, it's all a conspiracy. That's got to be it. It can't be because a tiny minority of Canadians are delusional and are horribly wrong and can't do math. I still want to hear how Alberta could survive on windmills and solar power after shutting down all oil production. That would be a completely hilarious read.


Obviously that would torpedo their very homogeneous job marker. Thats the price of not diversifying, an entire province is married to one industry.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 9th, 2018, 12:49 pm

CapitalB wrote:
Obviously that would torpedo their very homogeneous job marker. Thats the price of not diversifying, an entire province is married to one industry.


Actually, it would kill them all, as it would kill anybody trying to survive a Canadian winter. But I'd still like to hear someone try and explain to me how it would work. I actually did that one time with some Occupy lunatics and it was great fun listening to them try and explain how you build a 250 ton wind turbine and install it (including pouring and mixing the concrete) without emitting any "GHG's" (whatever those are). They had no clue that it actually takes energy to build a wind turbine. They thought magic fairies just produced them in some faraway land, and then more magic fairies somehow got them upright and turning, and the power produced, what little there was, appeared on a magic grid that magically appeared out of nothing. That's how clued out this tiny faction of completely delusional people are. Costs? What are those? Intermittent power? What is that? Why is it so cold in here all of a sudden?
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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby George+ » Feb 9th, 2018, 12:49 pm

See California.

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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 9th, 2018, 12:52 pm

George+ wrote:See California.


I see your California and raise you Ohio. What game are we playing here?
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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby hobbyguy » Feb 9th, 2018, 1:16 pm

^^ there we go, the real sentiment is expressed, don't want to be a Canadian? Don't care about Canadians in other regions? "My way or the highway" far left tyrannical impulse at the place where Stalin meets Mussolini.

Jt expressed it very well, the economy and the environment are interlinked, and both need to be considered in moving forward in ways that minimize risks and maximize benefits.

The TMX is paying for: dramatically enhanced protection for all our coast, a transition that Rachel Notley is beginning in Alberta toward a more sustainable future, $1 billion to support BC programs, new good paying jobs in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan, enhancements like remote controlled automated containment valves on the old pipeline (the existing ones are manual and many are hard to get to), reductions in highly risky crude oil by rail and truck, plus significant funds to the federal governemnt that will go to pay for health care etc. etc.

The risks from the TMX are so small, as measured scientifically and statistically, as to be virtually zero. The BC NDP and their junior varsity (bicycle Gregor and demovictions Derek) have played the alarmist games of chicken little over the risks to pander votes for their own personal benefit and pecuniary interests.

JT knows that myopic ideologues will never have the cognitive agility to balance out the complexities of the situation. So best to just let Horgan and Heyman twist in the wind until they make an actionable error. Engaging in the yap fest plays into the BC NDP virtue signaling.

JT also knows that we are almost all Canadians first, and the BC NDP straying from that will not work in their favor in the long run. Patience is then the order of the day, even though it gives the pols in opposition a little room to be noisy, which makes the points against the BC NDP anyway.

The stink that the BC NDP unnecessarily and disingenuously ginned up will stick to them like skunk juice on a dog. Heyman had precious little credibility, and squandered what little he had left with this stunt - and very publicly has exposed the BC NDP Achilles heel - the inability to think and consider "and then what?".

The further JT stays from this BC NDP dog and pony show the better, skunk juice has a bad habit of rubbing off. Let the BC NDP box themselves in with their childish games into actually doing something - then drop the hammer.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby CapitalB » Feb 9th, 2018, 2:41 pm

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Actually, it would kill them all, as it would kill anybody trying to survive a Canadian winter. But I'd still like to hear someone try and explain to me how it would work. I actually did that one time with some Occupy lunatics and it was great fun listening to them try and explain how you build a 250 ton wind turbine and install it (including pouring and mixing the concrete) without emitting any "GHG's" (whatever those are). They had no clue that it actually takes energy to build a wind turbine. They thought magic fairies just produced them in some faraway land, and then more magic fairies somehow got them upright and turning, and the power produced, what little there was, appeared on a magic grid that magically appeared out of nothing. That's how clued out this tiny faction of completely delusional people are. Costs? What are those? Intermittent power? What is that? Why is it so cold in here all of a sudden?


The saner way would be to just generally diversify our energy production mechanisms. I mean no sense throwing out what we have now its in place, it works, and has a job infrastructure. Doesn't mean we can't take advantage of the resource free (after construction costs) renewable energies. Though for canada I would personally lean more towards geothermal power, maybe solar in some places, and going forward looking into cutting edge nuclear (because the modern stuff is cheap clean and safe as long as its not built on an island or fault line). Double bonus with geothermal because northern alberta is one of the more active places in canada for that.

Thats just diversifying though, regardless of anything else relying on one thing just seems like bad planning.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby Cactusflower » Feb 9th, 2018, 2:59 pm

hobbyguy wrote:^^ there we go, the real sentiment is expressed, don't want to be a Canadian? Don't care about Canadians in other regions? "My way or the highway" far left tyrannical impulse at the place where Stalin meets Mussolini.

Jt expressed it very well, the economy and the environment are interlinked, and both need to be considered in moving forward in ways that minimize risks and maximize benefits.

The TMX is paying for: dramatically enhanced protection for all our coast, a transition that Rachel Notley is beginning in Alberta toward a more sustainable future, $1 billion to support BC programs, new good paying jobs in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan, enhancements like remote controlled automated containment valves on the old pipeline (the existing ones are manual and many are hard to get to), reductions in highly risky crude oil by rail and truck, plus significant funds to the federal governemnt that will go to pay for health care etc. etc.

The risks from the TMX are so small, as measured scientifically and statistically, as to be virtually zero. The BC NDP and their junior varsity (bicycle Gregor and demovictions Derek) have played the alarmist games of chicken little over the risks to pander votes for their own personal benefit and pecuniary interests.

JT knows that myopic ideologues will never have the cognitive agility to balance out the complexities of the situation. So best to just let Horgan and Heyman twist in the wind until they make an actionable error. Engaging in the yap fest plays into the BC NDP virtue signaling.

JT also knows that we are almost all Canadians first, and the BC NDP straying from that will not work in their favor in the long run. Patience is then the order of the day, even though it gives the pols in opposition a little room to be noisy, which makes the points against the BC NDP anyway.

The stink that the BC NDP unnecessarily and disingenuously ginned up will stick to them like skunk juice on a dog. Heyman had precious little credibility, and squandered what little he had left with this stunt - and very publicly has exposed the BC NDP Achilles heel - the inability to think and consider "and then what?".

The further JT stays from this BC NDP dog and pony show the better, skunk juice has a bad habit of rubbing off. Let the BC NDP box themselves in with their childish games into actually doing something - then drop the hammer.


*removed* I'm going to reply to this post on a point by point basis:

1) Your 'my way or the highway' comment fits Rachel Notley to a tee. If she can't push her dilbit pipeline through B.C., she'll ban B.C. wine in her province, and as she threatened yesterday, if that doesn't bring B.C.'s economy to its knees, she'll ban more of our products. Yes, it's just fine with you when the Alberta Premier throws a temper tantrum, but when the B.C. Premier wants to discuss something that threatens B.C.'s environment and economy with his constituents, he's vilified by the very people who should be backing him up.......the people of B.C. How 'Canadian' is that?

2) That favourite mantra of JT, ' the economy and the environment are interlinked' is the biggest load of crap he's ever spouted, worse even than 'sunny ways', which incidentally was coined by his professed hero, Sir Wilfrid Laurier, and which he decided to parrot, just as some commenters here like to parrot what you write.

3) Where's the proof that Kinder Morgan is going to TRY to clean up the dilbit spills that occur on our land, and in our rivers and coastal waters, much less 'the enhanced protection of our coast'? Taxpayers are, have always been, and always will be footing the bill for any attempt to protect or clean up our coast. If you need some examples, let me know and I'll provide them in a later post.

4) If you think the risks are so small, perhaps you should google 'oil spills in North America'. But you don't want to do that, do you? Because you can't handle the truth.

5) *removed*

6) JT doesn't have the brains God gave a goose. The only reason he's our PM is because a lot of people thought he'd be better than Harper. They were wrong.

7) JT himself is not 'Canadian first'. He's Quebecois first. He proved that when he allowed Quebec to block Energy East for the very same reasons that B.C. is trying to block the KMX.

7 &8) *removed*
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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby hobbyguy » Feb 9th, 2018, 4:00 pm

Lol. The same ideologue stuff I expected from the fringe.

The entire TMX compromise has been set up to benefit Canada and all Canadians, not the 3.4% of cognitively inflexible that voted for Elizabeth May and her Green crew (yes, the same Green leader who was accused of being a bully).

The fact that some can not see that the TMX is a benefit to BC and poses virtually no risk as finally conceived and proceeding is very telling. It is also a benefit to all Canadians.

The opponents gin up nonsense. There is only an infinitesimal probability of a catastrophic spill. And always the chicken littles scream "Exxon Valdez" while ignoring all of the innovations and technological that have reduced significant oil spills in first world countries to zero this century. Somehow the same chicken littles will tout "technological innovations and improvements will make solar power wunnerful soon, just you wait, it's gonna defy the laws of physics".

The nonsense about cleaning up spills is just that. Everybody knows that no oil spill ever gets "cleaned up" - the objective is to avoid them in the first place through proper marine safety regimes, and those are largely in place and being improved - with the improvements being paid for by the TMX.

The Valdez spill was in 1989 - a Mac portable computer at the time weighed 16 pounds with a VGA monitor and a 386 type processor - and it cost $6,500 USD! Things have changed, the Golden Girls is no longer a top TV show. There has not been a catastrophic tanker incident on the west coast since - despite thousands of tankers going through Juan De Fuca and BC waters since.

The chicken littles insist there will be a spill - yet offer no proof, and the few that try to spin any proof are always caught out twisting the truth and deliberately using bad math.

JT is on the right side of this one. The BC LIberals are on the right side of this one. The Alberta NDP are on the right side of this one. The Saskatchewan party are on the right side of this one.

The BC NDP are being childish snollygosters. Nothing new there. If and when they actually take any action to back up the schoolyard taunts of George the fool, then JT will mobilize and smack them down - just as he should.

I am proud to be a Canadian and support the Canadian constitution and our democracy. Why isn't John Horgan? Why isn't George Heyman?
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby Cactusflower » Feb 9th, 2018, 4:16 pm

^^Because they are British Columbians, and British Columbians don't crap all over other British Columbians.
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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby Ka-El » Feb 9th, 2018, 5:07 pm

Cactusflower wrote:..., and British Columbians don't crap all over other British Columbians.

Not all over the lunatic fringe anyway - just crap on the ones that want to work to feed and house their families. Most people would be happy to see their neighbors working and doing well and have little patience for the hypocrisy of the eco-nuts driving to their protests in their gasoline powered automobiles to attend a gathering organized through social media (on phones built with petroleum by-products) and show off their vinyl posters protesting the transport of the resource. Good grief.
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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby Carrs Landing Viking » Feb 9th, 2018, 5:11 pm

Cactusflower wrote:^^Because they are British Columbians, and British Columbians don't crap all over other British Columbians.



So does that mean they are not Canadian? That would explain a lot.

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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby Cactusflower » Feb 9th, 2018, 5:21 pm

^^Contrary to popular SCRAP belief, the 'lunatic fringe' is the people who believe the KMX is going to provide jobs for British Columbians. IF this abomination goes through as Notley and Trudeau plan, there may be a few short-term jobs for construction and service workers, but in the long term the only B.C. jobs to be had will be working in the vain attempt to clean up the dilbit spills. Right now Trudeau is desperate to get some of those 88,000 lost jobs back, not to mention the few votes he might gain in Alberta in the next federal election.

If you can't support B.C.'s environment and economy, why are you here?
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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby Ka-El » Feb 9th, 2018, 5:37 pm

Cactusflower wrote: If you can't support B.C.'s environment and economy, why are you here?

Good question. Those people (the lunatic fringe) who want to thwart economic growth while forcing oil companies to transport petroleum products by the much more dangerous modes of rail and tanker truck should move somewhere else. It is possible to satisfy both economic and environmental concerns in moving oil by the much safer mode of pipeline transport.
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Re: Where's Trudeau?

Postby Cactusflower » Feb 9th, 2018, 5:42 pm

Ka-El wrote:
Cactusflower wrote: If you can't support B.C.'s environment and economy, why are you here?

Good question. Those people (the lunatic fringe) who want to thwart economic growth while forcing oil companies to transport petroleum products by the much more dangerous modes of rail and tanker truck should move somewhere else. It is possible to satisfy both economic and environmental concerns in moving oil by the much safer mode of pipeline transport.


Do you honestly believe that the Alberta multinational oil companies will stop shipping bitumen by rail if they get the pipeline through B.C.? How naive of you.
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