Please stay in your car after an icy accident folks!

[stuphoto]

this is regarding this story
https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/218668 ... ng-to-help

I absolutely hate reading about someone getting killed while helping out after an accident in bad road conditions.
However it happens every year.

I know he thought he was doing the right thing and helping out, however it was the wrong place and the wrong time to be helpful.
Please wait until the road has been closed or the conditions improved.

Just remember, if it is slippery enough for you to loose control, it's just as slippery for the next driver.

[bidwell2]

Your heart is in the right place, but it was not the icy conditions that led to his death, it was the spectacularly inept driving on the part of many of the drivers on the roads these days. I drove the Coq a couple of weeks ago during a snowstorm, my first time in a while, and I was absolutely flabbergasted by the unsafe driving of some of the people up there. I had never seen so many vehicles running at full highway speeds in an unplowed lane. Most of the folks with more than half a brain were taking it easy in the right lane, while the morons who generally hit and kill innocent pedestrians were doing 100km/hr + in the snow and ice covered left lane. One of them almost lost control and barely missed the front end of my car.

So yes it was obviously icy conditions when the pedestrian in this instance was struck, but I would not be the least surprised if many of the vehicles passing the accident scene were driving far too fast for the conditions.

The high level highways are closed constantly through the winter due to accidents nowadays, it's turning into a bloodbath up there.

[Cactusflower]

In other jurisdictions, when there are mountain highways that have a history of fatal and near fatal accidents practically on a daily basis in the winter, they put barriers up at either end from the first snowfall until the spring thaw. B.C. should do that to the Coq until drivers have smartened up and can learn to drive sensibly. Owning a vehicle with 4-wheel drive and installing snow tires does not give one a license to drive like an idiot.

[alanjh595]

In other jurisdictions, when there are mountain highways that have a history of fatal and near fatal accidents practically on a daily basis in the winter, they put barriers up at either end from the first snowfall until the spring thaw. B.C. should do that to the Coq until drivers have smartened up and can learn to drive sensibly. Owning a vehicle with 4-wheel drive and installing snow tires does not give one a license to drive like an idiot.

Oh yeah? I have 750,000 miles as a professional driver under my belt in BC alone and have NEVER seen such a road barrier system as you describe. Where was that again?

[Walking Wounded]

In other jurisdictions, when there are mountain highways that have a history of fatal and near fatal accidents practically on a daily basis in the winter, they put barriers up at either end from the first snowfall until the spring thaw.

[Dizzy1]

In other jurisdictions, when there are mountain highways that have a history of fatal and near fatal accidents practically on a daily basis in the winter, they put barriers up at either end from the first snowfall until the spring thaw. B.C. should do that to the Coq until drivers have smartened up and can learn to drive sensibly. Owning a vehicle with 4-wheel drive and installing snow tires does not give one a license to drive like an idiot.

So basically shut down the BC highway system?

I too am curious at these barriers. Having driven in mountain passes during winter in BC, Alberta, various US States and Europe - I have yet to see these.

[Cactusflower]

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/traffic/passes/northcascades
Must I do all the research on this forum?

[Dizzy1]

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/traffic/passes/northcascades
Must I do all the research on this forum?

Hmmm, sounds more like a maintenance reason than "a history of fatal accidents" ...

We close the highway on the west side at milepost 134, east of Diablo, and on the east side at milepost 171, 14 miles west of Mazama. As the snow gets too deep for the plow truck

Also worthy of note, its a secondary byway, not a main highway which is pretty much all we have in BC.

[Cactusflower]

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/traffic/passes/northcascades
Must I do all the research on this forum?

Hmmm, sounds more like a maintenance reason than "a history of fatal accidents" ...

We close the highway on the west side at milepost 134, east of Diablo, and on the east side at milepost 171, 14 miles west of Mazama. As the snow gets too deep for the plow truck

Keep reading until the end of the piece.

[Dizzy1]

Keep reading until the end of the piece.

I've read it several times. I cannot find anything pertaining to ...

have a history of fatal and near fatal accidents practically on a daily basis in the winter

[Always Sunny]

Why we close the highway in winter:
We close the North Cascades when weather, snow conditions and avalanche danger threaten the safety of drivers and our maintenance crews. We close the highway on the west side at milepost 134, east of Diablo, and on the east side at milepost 171, 14 miles west of Mazama. As the snow gets too deep for the plow truck, the east closure point is moved 7 miles down to the Early Winters Information Center at milepost 178. Avalanches typically close the highway between late November and mid December.
Reopening in the spring is usually accomplished by early May.

A little more research:

SR 20 is one of only three State Routes in Washington that have portions closed in the winter (the others being SR 410 and SR 123). Washington Pass (elev. 5,477 feet or 1,669 meters) and nearby Rainy Pass (elev. 4,875 feet or 1,486 meters) annually receive up to 15 feet (4.6 m) of snow throughout the winter, and are prone to avalanches leaving over 20 feet (6.1 m) of snow on the road.

And a bit more:

Why not keep the highway open all winter?
We did keep it open one winter - the drought of 1976-77.

We cannot physically keep the North Cascades Highway open all winter. The North Cascades Highway has avalanche chutes that are more than 2,000 feet long. Even if a couple inches of snow slides, the chutes can dump a 20-foot-deep avalanche on the highway in a matter of minutes. (The avalanche chutes on Stevens and Snoqualmie are all well under 1,000 feet long.) Couple that with the fact that the highway has among the most avalanche chutes of any mountain highway in the country, and there's no way anyone could provide a safe highway, short of putting the route in a tunnel (which would eliminate all of its appeal, even if someone had that much money).

Can you cite that part about the non-stop fatal accidents. All I can find is example, after example of severe avalanche risk.

[Cactusflower]

I thought we were discussing the dangerous winter highways and why it's necessary to close them. My point was that there are parts of the Coq that should be closed in winter because it's obviously too dangerous to keep it open. The plows haven't been able to keep up this year........and many other years. Have you never watched that "Highway Through Hell" show on TV?

The fatal, and near-fatal accidents are all part of the reason parts of the Coq should be closed in winter. We have two other routes to the coast, the Trans Canada and the Hope Princeton (Hwy #3). How do you think we drove to the coast before Bennett's Folly?

[Dizzy1]

I thought we were discussing the dangerous winter highways and why it's necessary to close them. My point was that there are parts of the Coq that should be closed in winter because it's obviously too dangerous to keep it open. The plows haven't been able to keep up this year........and many other years. Have you never watched that "Highway Through Hell" show on TV?

The fatal, and near-fatal accidents are all part of the reason parts of the Coq should be closed in winter. We have two other routes to the coast, the Trans Canada and the Hope Princeton (Hwy #3). How do you think we drove to the coast before Bennett's Folly?

Icy, snowy conditions as well as people not driving to conditions (which is what causes most accidents) on a major thruway has nothing in common with closing a scenic side road due to the risk of a much higher risk of avalanches or the lack snow removal maintenance than the Coq.

As for "Highway Thru Hell", if that overdramatized piece of rubbish "reality" TV is where you base your opinion from, then you really need a reality check.

Highway 5 has had only 7-8 fatalities more than the Fraser or Hope-Princeton in recent years. By your logic, the Trans Canada between Revelstoke is the one to shut down as it has the highest fatalities in the Province and is shut down more due to avalanches and avalanche control than any other highway in the Province.

https://globalnews.ca/news/1819213/brit ... -highways/

The Coq's problem, just like any other highway in BC are drivers either not driving to the conditions or driving way past their abilities or under impairment (alcohol, pot, texting, etc.).

Yet your comment on the Coq being "Bennett's Folly" demonstrates your (yet again) political bias towards a topic instead of logical reasoning.

[Cactusflower]

There's nothing wrong with the T.C. between Salmon arm and Revelstoke that couldn't be fixed with a re-routing. That's an old part of the T.C. that's been neglected for years. The Connector, on the other hand was Bennett's dream of having a quick route from Kelowna to the Coq. He wasn't satisfied with the original route from Kamloops to Merritt. He didn't care that his 'connector' traversed some of the most hostile terrain in the province.

[Always Sunny]

I thought we were discussing the dangerous winter highways and why it's necessary to close them. My point was that there are parts of the Coq that should be closed in winter because it's obviously too dangerous to keep it open. The plows haven't been able to keep up this year........and many other years. Have you never watched that "Highway Through Hell" show on TV?

The fatal, and near-fatal accidents are all part of the reason parts of the Coq should be closed in winter. We have two other routes to the coast, the Trans Canada and the Hope Princeton (Hwy #3). How do you think we drove to the coast before Bennett's Folly?

What you said was “when there are mountain highways that have a history of fatal and near fatal accidents practically on a daily basis in the winter, they put barriers up at either end from the first snowfall until the spring thaw” and then linked a source that in no way at all relates these road closures to “a history of fatal and near fatal accidents”. These “other jurisdictions” don’t close for the reason you strongly suggested, but because of weather conditions that can’t be safely kept up with.

Take a boo at this article: https://globalnews.ca/news/1819213/brit ... -highways/

In the time frame of this article, there were 32 fatal accidents on the Hope-Merritt stretch. There were 24 on the Hope-Princeton stretch. They already experience 75% of the # of fatal accidents. I’m willing to bet the Hope-Princeton doesn’t get 75% of the traffic the Hope-Merritt stretch sees (up to 30,000 passengers/day in peak season). Add in Highway 1 and the Hope-Lillooet portion had another 24 fatals.

So how do you suppose funneling massive amounts of traffic through these two alternate routes will save lives?

I’ve watch Highway Thru Hell. Do you realize how many of those rescues aren’t on the Merritt-Hope stretch of that drive? Lots occur on those exact routes you propose.