Driverless legislation pushed

[Jonrox]

Driverless trucks can drive in all weather conditions and will be able to do it better than humans. Where human drivers can have issues with visibility, driverless trucks are able to use a variety of sensors and cameras to “see through” the snow and rain. They can also be programmed to pull over when conditions are too dangerous, while human drivers tend to push the limits of what is safe.

And there’s a huge shortage in North America whether you believe it or not... there are dozens upon dozens of articles about it. Just look at the impact he introduction of eLogs has done to truck availability... it’s brutal right now. Rates have skyrocketed.

[JagXKR]

Driverless trucks can drive in all weather conditions and will be able to do it better than humans. Where human drivers can have issues with visibility, driverless trucks are able to use a variety of sensors and cameras to “see through” the snow and rain. They can also be programmed to pull over when conditions are too dangerous, while human drivers tend to push the limits of what is safe.

Sorry but you are so wrong it's not funny. These magical sensors are self cleaning? Nope they are not. There is no system that can keep all the sensors clean. Have you driven in Canada? I mean really driven the Coq or Connector in bad weather?

But keep drinking the koolaid.

[Verum]

...
Sorry but you are so wrong it's not funny. These magical sensors are self cleaning? Nope they are not. There is no system that can keep all the sensors clean. Have you driven in Canada? I mean really driven the Coq or Connector in bad weather?

But keep drinking the koolaid.

But how do we keep the sensors we humans use for driving clean and with clear access to their subject? Wouldn't that work? Also, not all sensors need a spotlessly clean surface to work, unlike our primary sensors, which can be worse than useless if dirt gets on the surface and ours cannot see effectively through the protective shield if it gets wet or covered in dirt.

[Jlabute]

...
Sorry but you are so wrong it's not funny. These magical sensors are self cleaning? Nope they are not. There is no system that can keep all the sensors clean. Have you driven in Canada? I mean really driven the Coq or Connector in bad weather?

But keep drinking the koolaid.

But how do we keep the sensors we humans use for driving clean and with clear access to their subject? Wouldn't that work? Also, not all sensors need a spotlessly clean surface to work, unlike our primary sensors, which can be worse than useless if dirt gets on the surface and ours cannot see effectively through the protective shield if it gets wet or covered in dirt.

You are talking about eyes and how that relates to a fluid & wiper system for all sensors? Well, there are multiple radar sensors (front, rear, sides, corners), lidar, ultrasonic sensors, imagers, and who knows what else needs to be unobstructed. You could have a car covered with 40 wiper blades with a giant nipple on the top. The exact kind of car I would resist buying due to sheer ugliness. I don't think there is a blade system for lidar, plus wiper blades are much slower than the response time required by lidar, plus hopefully any wiper fluid wouldn't freeze, smudge, etc when it is VERY cold outpide. A lot of the sensors can be fooled by snow or rain fall, dust storms, slush, ice, and various driving conditions. There is soo much a self driving car needs to do flawlessly, aside from retrieve perfect sensor data 200x a second, know where you're going, know the rules of the current road you're on, and how to handle loss of 360 degree sensor data and GPS data. These types of sensors can't have a protective shield or be behind a windshield. The complexity of the algorithms are immense and need years of testing alone. Canada is definitely a tougher environment.
Many of the sensors do not need to be 'spotless', but they do need to be clean.

[Verum]

You are talking about eyes and how that relates to a fluid & wiper system for all sensors? Well, there are multiple radar sensors (front, rear, sides, corners), lidar, ultrasonic sensors, imagers, and who knows what else needs to be unobstructed. You could have a car covered with 40 wiper blades with a giant nipple on the top. The exact kind of car I would resist buying due to sheer ugliness. I don't think there is a blade system for lidar, plus wiper blades are much slower than the response time required by lidar, plus hopefully any wiper fluid wouldn't freeze, smudge, etc when it is VERY cold outpide. A lot of the sensors can be fooled by snow or rain fall, dust storms, slush, ice, and various driving conditions. There is soo much a self driving car needs to do flawlessly, aside from retrieve perfect sensor data 200x a second, know where you're going, know the rules of the current road you're on, and how to handle loss of 360 degree sensor data and GPS data. These types of sensors can't have a protective shield or be behind a windshield. The complexity of the algorithms are immense and need years of testing alone. Canada is definitely a tougher environment.
Many of the sensors do not need to be 'spotless', but they do need to be clean.

Radar actually works quite well with dirt/dust on it. There are lots of sensors on a self driving car and they don't need to have a wiper for most of them, a simple high pressure spray would suffice.
But, you bring up an interesting topic. We operate in a "degraded" mode when we cannot see very well and reduce our speed to account for the conditions. Surely a self-driving vehicle can do similar. When some of the sensors are operating at less than optimum, the car can go into a mode to allow it to travel safely. These systems do not require perfection to work.
These systems on a car might have the ability to respond very quickly, but such is not a necessity to do a better job than people do. They only need to be able to respond faster than we do. We deal with the wash/wipe blocking our vision temporarily, so will automated driving systems deal with temporary interruptions in sensor data.
Finally, the country who is delays adopting automated driving will suffer hugely in terms of economics and even in terms of numbers of people injured or killed on the roads. The motivations people have to delay are understandable, but ultimately, we need to embrace this change as soon as we reasonably can. The alternative is too costly.

[Jlabute]

RADAR is needed for close up driving, parking, etc, along with ultrasonic and inertial motion units (accelerometers, gyroscopes etc). They don't have to be really clean, but, I've had on occasion my radar go dirty while driving and become basically useless (there goes my self-parking if it was level 5). In sunny California, I would expect RADAR wouldn't have much of an issue. LiDAR on the other hand is more picky and can be fooled by snow, rain, dirt, dust... and it is needed to form a 3D representation of a 360 degree surrounding in high resolution out to 150 feet at least. I doubt you could spray it while driving if it needed cleaning. Because it is a 77GHz pulse laser and relies on reflected light, where there are a lot of conditions that can interfere and possibly require complex algorithms to overcome. Perhaps, the vehicle can go in to a slow mode... which is what some test vehicles have done. Hard to say what would be appropriate. The human brain can instantly do object recognition and determine what the surroundings could be like even if they can't be seen. LiDAR systems are not so sophisticated. Your brain can tell what a stop sign is and says even if the shape is warped and graffiti is painted. LiDAR, algorithms, and image sensors have immense trouble. The question would be is stopping better than going slow in an indeterminate state where sensor data has anomalies.
I think autonomous level 5 cars will be figured out around 2030+ or so. I don't disagree that they shouldn't come, but I think there are huge obstacles for them to operate in all environments to level 5 (no steering wheel). Delays in adopting I think are much much shorter than the eventual replacement of all vehicles in order to make roads safe. Even if a country delays adoption by 5 years, older drivers capable of crashing are on the road until 2060 at least.

[CapitalB]

RADAR is needed for close up driving, parking, etc, along with ultrasonic and inertial motion units (accelerometers, gyroscopes etc). They don't have to be really clean, but, I've had on occasion my radar go dirty while driving and become basically useless (there goes my self-parking if it was level 5). In sunny California, I would expect RADAR wouldn't have much of an issue. LiDAR on the other hand is more picky and can be fooled by snow, rain, dirt, dust... and it is needed to form a 3D representation of a 360 degree surrounding in high resolution out to 150 feet at least. I doubt you could spray it while driving if it needed cleaning. Because it is a 77GHz pulse laser and relies on reflected light, where there are a lot of conditions that can interfere and possibly require complex algorithms to overcome. Perhaps, the vehicle can go in to a slow mode... which is what some test vehicles have done. Hard to say what would be appropriate. The human brain can instantly do object recognition and determine what the surroundings could be like even if they can't be seen. LiDAR systems are not so sophisticated. Your brain can tell what a stop sign is and says even if the shape is warped and graffiti is painted. LiDAR, algorithms, and image sensors have immense trouble. The question would be is stopping better than going slow in an indeterminate state where sensor data has anomalies.
I think autonomous level 5 cars will be figured out around 2030+ or so. I don't disagree that they shouldn't come, but I think there are huge obstacles for them to operate in all environments to level 5 (no steering wheel). Delays in adopting I think are much much shorter than the eventual replacement of all vehicles in order to make roads safe. Even if a country delays adoption by 5 years, older drivers capable of crashing are on the road until 2060 at least.

They solved the lidar problem with snow a couple years back. Level 5 is full autonomous anywhere, who knows how long that'll take. Level 4 however is fully auto in cities, we'll probably have that in the next year or two. I base that estimation off the level 3 busses and taxis we have testing in canadian cities right now. Level 3 is full auto on specific tracks, basically sidewalk trams. My major point here aside from this tech being way closer than people keep predicting, is that we aren't waiting for level 5 the disruptive tech starts at 3 and it is here now.

[dirtybiker]

but ultimately, we need to embrace this change as soon as we reasonably can. The alternative is too costly.

Sounds like your fine with releasing these things onto the roadways and sharing the space with them whilst
they go through their update phases and glitches.

I am not.

Well, I'm also not fine with being forced to share the roadways with the
current gerble minded and inept either.

My current requirements of 'drive' will not be going away anytime soon.

When robots or machines can build and stitch a baseball, driverless
technology may be getting closer to ready to be unleashed on public
roadways.

[CapitalB]

Common dirty biker they already get in less accidents (Ten times less accidents than the safest demographic of human drivers BTW) than people what more do you want?

[Jlabute]

Level 3 is driving assistance and not autonomous. It still requires a driver.
"Level 3: Drivers are still necessary in level 3 cars, but are able to completely shift "safety-critical functions" to the vehicle, under certain traffic or environmental conditions."
Also snow with LiDAR is under testing... this has not been 'solved'. Still does not account for slush on your LiDAR or heavy snow or heavy rain or splashes from oncoming traffic etc. I don't know all the conditions that can occur... but LEVEL 3 is tough, LEVEL 5 and LEVEL 4 are still further down the road. Computing hardware is still being developed by NVidia and the likes as well as new generations of sensors. It'll take time to integrate and develop and test and approve.

[CapitalB]

Level 3 is driving assistance and not autonomous.Technically level 3 has a human as an emergency fall back and is classed as ai driving with human assistance instead of the opposite.
It still requires a driver.
"Level 3: Drivers are still necessary in level 3 cars, but are able to completely shift "safety-critical functions" to the vehicle, under certain traffic or environmental conditions."
Also snow with LiDAR is under testing... this has not been 'solved'. Still does not account for slush on your LiDAR
or heavy snow or heavy rain or splashes from oncoming traffic etc. I don't know all the conditions that can occur... but LEVEL 3 is tough, LEVEL 5 and LEVEL 4Its here right now are still further down the roadWith more coming this year. Computing hardware is still being developed by NVidia and the likes as well as new generations of sensors. It'll take time to integrate and develop and test and approve.

Yeah but not a decade time, that would literally be the slowest tech turnover in decades and these things historically trend faster with each year we go into the future.

[dirtybiker]

Two words...ice fog....coatings of a nice thick layer of ice.
Also changing reflections and refractions as well as aerodynamics.

Even heated surfaces fail to address it's effects.


Maybe I should embrace the technology and hope they speed up the
process.
I'm confident my areas will go largely unaffected by such things and
it would drive up the renumerations for being in my sector.
Getting paid more would not be a bad thing.

[Jonrox]

Hang on here 'Jonrox'. Do you know something that I don't about the rates going up? Hey if they are ...sign me up!

First hand knowledge. Elogs resulted in an immediate reduction in driver hours of approximately 30% across the continent (a combination of new rules and enforcement of old laws). Combine that with states actually enforcing licensing rules for Mexican drivers in the southern states and there's a tremendous shortage. The result of both things happening has resulted in significant rate increases since the elog rules took effect December 17.

[Sparki55]

Common dirty biker they already get in less accidents (Ten times less accidents than the safest demographic of human drivers BTW) than people what more do you want?

Based on perfect driving conditions. Try this in snow, rain, etc. like the other posters are suggesting!

[CapitalB]

Common dirty biker they already get in less accidents (Ten times less accidents than the safest demographic of human drivers BTW) than people what more do you want?

Based on perfect driving conditions. Try this in snow, rain, etc. like the other posters are suggesting!

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/1 ... ronto.html

That'll get some snow testing.