Budget 2018

Re: Budget 2018

Postby rustled » Mar 1st, 2018, 7:49 pm

Drip_Torch wrote: Oh, I guess we should just carry on business as usual? Who cares what the BC Utilities Commission, or for that matter, any other independent non partisan commission has to say.

You're not making sense.

I don't see anyone arguing with the BCUC's decision on this.

I do see people doing anything they can rather than acknowledge "Horgan made a rash promise".

This is simply another in a series of promises rashly made and then broken, with a series of excuses. It seems some here will use any excuse or tactic to avoid simply saying he made a mistake, or he miscalculated, or he shouldn't have promised what he did. Anything.

It's amazing how people who once expected transparency and accountability from their government are now content with excuses.

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Re: Budget 2018

Postby flamingfingers » Mar 1st, 2018, 7:54 pm

It's amazing how people who once expected transparency and accountability from their government are now content with excuses.


Yes, and the BC Liberals were expert at avoiding both... for 16 years, despite Campbell's and Clark's vehement promises!!
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?
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Re: Budget 2018

Postby rustled » Mar 1st, 2018, 7:59 pm

flamingfingers wrote:
It's amazing how people who once expected transparency and accountability from their government are now content with excuses.


Yes, and the BC Liberals were expert at avoiding both... for 16 years, despite Campbell's and Clark's vehement promises!!

The BC Liberals made some daft promises, and some significant mistakes, and they certainly did have issues with transparency and accountability. But here, we're talking about the current budget put forward by the BC NDP. Promises made by them, promises they shouldn't have made.

So are you saying yes, you are now content with excuses? Were you not expecting better from the NDP? Are you not in the least disappointed?

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Re: Budget 2018

Postby George+ » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:03 pm

What a mess the Liberals left....ICBC, BC Hydro etc.

Too bad the shameless Liberal cheerleaders do not acknowledge the obvious.

Utility companies, generally, have big financial challenges.

They could reduce costs to consumers based on time of usage.
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Re: Budget 2018

Postby flamingfingers » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:08 pm

rustled:

If you had bothered to read my previous post, you would be able to recognize this on you own instead of repeating your question.
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?
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Re: Budget 2018

Postby Drip_Torch » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:10 pm

rustled wrote:
Drip_Torch wrote: Oh, I guess we should just carry on business as usual? Who cares what the BC Utilities Commission, or for that matter, any other independent non partisan commission has to say.

You're not making sense.

I don't see anyone arguing with the BCUC's decision on this.

I do see people doing anything they can rather than acknowledge "Horgan made a rash promise".

This is simply another in a series of promises rashly made and then broken, with a series of excuses. It seems some here will use any excuse or tactic to avoid simply saying he made a mistake, or he miscalculated, or he shouldn't have promised what he did. Anything.

It's amazing how people who once expected transparency and accountability from their government are now content with excuses.


I would suggest that you still don’t understand the problem. A three percent rate hike is going to be hardship for some folks. The government attempting to ameliorate that hardship is not the problem.

Who is more culpable in this situation? The government that took over the corporation, ignored what the BCUC said about sustainability and used the utility to create the perception of balanced budgets? Or, the government that recognized the hardship successive rate increases were causing, tried to freeze the rates, but ultimately deferred to the commission that is in the best positon to make those decisions?

I know, this whole lack of lawlessness thing is new to a few of you, but please do try and understand a three percent rate hike is a hardship for some people in BC, and I sure as hell don't fault the people that tried to make life easier for those folks.
Last edited by Drip_Torch on Mar 1st, 2018, 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Budget 2018

Postby Urbane » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:11 pm

George: "Shameless Liberal cheerleaders" . . . talk about irony!! Hopefully your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek!

How about back on topic and that isn't what Gordon Campbell did a decade ago or what Christy Clark did. It's about this NDP budget. I understand why NDP'ers on here are reluctant to discuss it but that is the subject of this thread.
"Spectemur agendo"

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Re: Budget 2018

Postby Drip_Torch » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:24 pm

Here, maybe this will help...

VICTORIA — BC Hydro is borrowing hundreds of millions of dollars to meet the provincial government’s demands for an annual dividend.
The Crown power corporation owes around $852 million to the government over the next three fiscal years in mandatory annual dividend payments. But it doesn’t have the cash, and so it will have to borrow the funds, said Energy Minister Bill Bennett.


Now I've got to hand it Bill Bennett, in hindsight, he was one of the bright ones...

Bennett has admitted the practice is unsustainable...


http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news ... t-dividend
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Re: Budget 2018

Postby flamingfingers » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:26 pm

Urbane wrote\;

How about back on topic and that isn't what Gordon Campbell did a decade ago or what Christy Clark did. It's about this NDP budget. I understand why NDP'ers on here are reluctant to discuss it but that is the subject of this thread.


Urbane - what happened BEFORE has an irrefutable impact on what happens AFTER. As much as you wish, the government cannot start a fresh sheet and ignore the past as much as you would like it to happen. The BC Liberals made a mess of ICBC, BC Hydro and the housing market.

Your BC Liberal party was a 16-year DISASTER!!
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?

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Re: Budget 2018

Postby Urbane » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:37 pm

    flamingfingers wrote:
    Urbane - what happened BEFORE has an irrefutable impact on what happens AFTER. As much as you wish, the government cannot start a fresh sheet and ignore the past as much as you would like it to happen. The BC Liberals made a mess of ICBC, BC Hydro and the housing market.

    Your BC Liberal party was a 16-year DISASTER!!
Here in BC we have some of the lowest hydro rates on the continent. I'd say that BC Hydro is a success story and not a mess. Anyway, the BCUC is the final authority and they decreed that Horgan was wrong about freezing BC Hydro rates at a time when infrastructure is being upgraded. Right they are and shame on Horgan for promising something that he had no right to promise. You're forgiving about NDP broken promises but I don't like broken promises by any political party.

I've already said that I'm not pleased with the Liberals' handling of ICBC and the changes that have been proposed seem like a step in the right direction. As for the NDP's approach to the housing market I have serious doubts that their plan is sound. Do you see some possible pitfalls there? It's too bad that so many of you have to be so partisan because your party would be far better off if you'd be more willing to call them out when they deserve it and not blame the Liberals all the time.
"Spectemur agendo"

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Re: Budget 2018

Postby Urbane » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:47 pm

Blunder is right!

Finance Minister Carole James and Education Minister Rob Fleming were on the defensive all week about the “employers health tax” that is to take effect next year for organizations with a payroll of $500,000 or more. James refused to say if there would be any relief for non-profits, school districts and other institutions who expect to pay both the payroll tax and their employees’ Medical Services Plan premiums for the year 2019, before MSP is phased out.

Wilkinson said MLAs from around the province are being approached by non-profits and businesses who are looking at either raising prices or cutting staff.

“They’re putting a $7 million bill on one of our universities for their health tax, and they’re not making up for that with any other source of funding,” he said. “You can kind of smell it in the air that they’ve realized they made a blunder on this employers health tax.”
https://www.vicnews.com/business/medica ... -key-vote/
"Spectemur agendo"

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Re: Budget 2018

Postby rustled » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:52 pm

Drip_Torch wrote:
rustled wrote:You're not making sense.

I don't see anyone arguing with the BCUC's decision on this.

I do see people doing anything they can rather than acknowledge "Horgan made a rash promise".

This is simply another in a series of promises rashly made and then broken, with a series of excuses. It seems some here will use any excuse or tactic to avoid simply saying he made a mistake, or he miscalculated, or he shouldn't have promised what he did. Anything.

It's amazing how people who once expected transparency and accountability from their government are now content with excuses.


I would suggest that you still don’t understand the problem. A three percent rate hike is going to be hardship for some folks. The government attempting to ameliorate that hardship is not the problem.

Who is more culpable in this situation? The government that took over the corporation, ignored what the BCUC said about sustainability and used the utility to create the perception of balanced budgets? Or, the government that recognized the hardship successive rate increases were causing, tried to freeze the rates, but ultimately deferred to the commission that is in the best positon to make those decisions?

I know, this whole lack of lawlessness thing is new to a few of you, but please do try and understand a three percent rate hike is a hardship for some people in BC, and I sure as hell don't fault the people that tried to make life easier for those folks.

We're talking about making rash promises. Horgan should have known better, but you're doing everything you can to avoid talking about that.

I get it. No point flogging a dead horse.

Hardship's apparently in the eye of the beholder. We should thank our lucky stars we have good access to hydro with the world going mad for more costly renewables. Based on last year's total, the 3% increase works out to about $100 a year for me. Nothing to sneeze at, and I'm sure others will be more affected, but if we truly want to alleviate hardship I'd suggest we'd do more by dropping the carbon tax.

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Re: Budget 2018

Postby rustled » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:54 pm

flamingfingers wrote:Urbane wrote\;

How about back on topic and that isn't what Gordon Campbell did a decade ago or what Christy Clark did. It's about this NDP budget. I understand why NDP'ers on here are reluctant to discuss it but that is the subject of this thread.


Urbane - what happened BEFORE has an irrefutable impact on what happens AFTER. As much as you wish, the government cannot start a fresh sheet and ignore the past as much as you would like it to happen. The BC Liberals made a mess of ICBC, BC Hydro and the housing market.

Your BC Liberal party was a 16-year DISASTER!!

I couldn't agree more. And yet, when we refer to the deal Glen Clark cut with the BCTF, no such accountability applies.

Shameless hypocricy. Truly shameless!

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Re: Budget 2018

Postby Urban Cowboy » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:58 pm

flamingfingers wrote:
It's amazing how people who once expected transparency and accountability from their government are now content with excuses.


Yes, and the BC Liberals were expert at avoiding both... for 16 years, despite Campbell's and Clark's vehement promises!!


And you've been quite vocal about it most of those years.

Now how about you speak up, when your party screws the pooch, and do your part to hold them to the SAME standards, that you demanded/expected of the Liberals.

After all fair is fair.
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Re: Budget 2018

Postby rustled » Mar 1st, 2018, 8:59 pm

Urbane wrote:Blunder is right!

Finance Minister Carole James and Education Minister Rob Fleming were on the defensive all week about the “employers health tax” that is to take effect next year for organizations with a payroll of $500,000 or more. James refused to say if there would be any relief for non-profits, school districts and other institutions who expect to pay both the payroll tax and their employees’ Medical Services Plan premiums for the year 2019, before MSP is phased out.

Wilkinson said MLAs from around the province are being approached by non-profits and businesses who are looking at either raising prices or cutting staff.

“They’re putting a $7 million bill on one of our universities for their health tax, and they’re not making up for that with any other source of funding,” he said. “You can kind of smell it in the air that they’ve realized they made a blunder on this employers health tax.”
https://www.vicnews.com/business/medica ... -key-vote/

Surely there's a way to fix this. Maybe use the tax money they earmarked for the parties?

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