Noah's Ark

[janalta]

I have no idea how you determined that you were ("in fact") not responding to a Muslim in your post, or any other belief system among the hundreds if not thousands out there for that matter ((including those who argue there is/are no God(s) at all and set out to prove they are right and whatever other religious texts are wrong)). I simply found it interesting that, given the tone of your argument, you would specifically target Christians.

Nab

Then, apparently, you're not really paying much attention to this thread.
I was replying to Tryscotty, who is a christian.

A Muslim would not be discussing his belief in Noah's Ark, God, or the bible.
The initial post would, instead, have been asking about Muhammad, the Qur'an and Allah

[Glacier]

Folks, let's not misuse the word Theory when referring to religious myths. All religious myths have the same basis in science - which is nothing, and are therefore simply myths.

Quite right, but let's not forget that some myths have turned out to be true.

[Process]

That's just an excuse to hold onto outmoded ideas that have a mountain of evidence against them. People who do so are merely fanatical believers, and I have no time for fanatics.

[Corneliousrooster]

Folks, let's not misuse the word Theory when referring to religious myths. All religious myths have the same basis in science - which is nothing, and are therefore simply myths.

Quite right, but let's not forget that some myths have turned out to be true.

Can we have some examples of myths that have come true? (would that not lift them out of the realm of "myth" status?)

[Homeownertoo]

Can we have some examples of myths that have come true? (would that not lift them out of the realm of "myth" status?)

The city of Troy.

[Corneliousrooster]

Can we have some examples of myths that have come true? (would that not lift them out of the realm of "myth" status?)

The city of Troy.

Since when was the city of Troy a myth? The Illiad was a poetic myth that took place in Troy. The events that are portrayed you would be hard pressed to prove as "factual" - but hey, lets not mix up facts with great story telling.

How about the sequel to the illiad? Are you going to take one as fact and not the other?

[Glacier]

Since when was the city of Troy a myth? The Illiad was a poetic myth that took place in Troy.

Not quite. Troy was thought to be a mythical place until its discovery in the 1800s.

[Corneliousrooster]

Since when was the city of Troy a myth? The Illiad was a poetic myth that took place in Troy.

Not quite. Troy was thought to be a mythical place until its discovery in the 1800s.

The myth was not Troy - the setting of the Myth was Troy

And North America was the Indies - doesn't make it so (or myth)


Can you not see the difference? Look at all the events that take place in the myths - is it any wonder that people assumed that its entirety was mythical - including the setting? how about the godly interference in the war? That been proved too? The dead went to HADES (can you point that out on a historical map for me?) Achilles was almost invincible (apart from that blasted heel) - all truth?

just like the ark - no one is arguing the existence of troy or that a war took place (just some of the circumstances surrounding the event) - just like no one is arguing the flood (just the circumstances surrounding the event)

being the majority of the Illiad and the oddessey are filled with lore that has been disproven and/or let go of - their entirety was written off as myth (later to discover that the setting existed)

Being the majority of the bible is filled with lore that has not been disproven and/or let go of - the entirety is taken as gospel only to be let go when/if the myth is disproven.

The absolutes of Christianity are far greater than the absolutes of Greek Mythology - therefore being far harder to disprove with science.


And all the other disproven myths are?????? (there has to be more than 1 right? - or is Troy the whole argument for myths found to be true???)

[Glacier]

Other myths that turned out to be true? How about Jericho. According to the Bible, the walls fell flat save for the house of the prostitute, Rahab. Wouldn't you know it, that the archeological evidence supports this story. Does this make the Bible true? No, but like the story of Noah's Flood, Jericho is another example of a story touted as untrue (or used to be) because of lack of evidence.

Remember, the Bible is book of history, not a scientific reference book. Hence the reason courts continue to rule that the Bible has no place in science class.

[Corneliousrooster]

Other myths that turned out to be true? How about Jericho. According to the Bible, the walls fell flat save for the house of the prostitute, Rahab. Wouldn't you know it, that the archeological evidence supports this story. Does this make the Bible true? No, but like the story of Noah's Flood, Jericho is another example of a story touted as untrue (or used to be) because of lack of evidence.

Remember, the Bible is book of history, not a scientific reference book. Hence the reason courts continue to rule that the Bible has no place in science class.

How about a story stretched beyond the boundaries of reality and into the realm of fantasy? The bible is NOT a book of history - it is a book that contains events from history (not a single author of any story in the bible would ever be labelled a "historian"). Just because certain findings correlate with certain aspects of myths does not give the myths "truth".

Take a look at the earthquake devastation in Japan right now....... now apply a possible earthquake to Jericho ....... thanks for the vivid retelling bible!

And thankfully the courts used REASON to rule that the bible has no place in science class - i believe the ruling applies to history class as well .......

[Process]

Quite right Cornelius! The history in the bible is not a literal history - biblical archeology is not respected by professional archeologists. The title of this forum alone is enough to support Cornelius' intention - instead of finding evidence for a worldwide flood, that would have required doubling of the world's water supplies and created all sorts of landforms and sedimentary evidence, there is no evidence for the event.

[Glacier]

The bible is NOT a book of history - it is a book that contains events from history (not a single author of any story in the bible would ever be labelled a "historian").

Historians are not the only authors of history. The Bible is probably one of the best sources of Hebrew history, even if many of it's stories and explanations are suspect or unconfirmed by other sources. In the ancient world much of the writing blames the gods for earthquakes and such, so of course the fall of Jericho was probably an earthquake. Most people who have read the Bible would not dispute this.

Anyway, back to the flood...

Here is what an old-earth creationist has to say...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4116168/d ... _rana_phd/

[36Drew]

A Muslim would not be discussing his belief in Noah's Ark, God, or the bible.
The initial post would, instead, have been asking about Muhammad, the Qur'an and Allah

Interesting you would make those claims.

Muslims and Christians worship the same god - the god of Abraham.
Muslims in fact do believe in Noah and the flood.

As I said in a different thread... same god, different prophet.

[Homeownertoo]

Can we have some examples of myths that have come true? (would that not lift them out of the realm of "myth" status?)

The city of Troy.

Since when was the city of Troy a myth? The Illiad was a poetic myth that took place in Troy. The events that are portrayed you would be hard pressed to prove as "factual" - but hey, lets not mix up facts with great story telling.

How about the sequel to the illiad? Are you going to take one as fact and not the other?

The city of Troy was, until discovered by Heinrich Schleimann, considered by most historians to be mythical. Too bad you weren't aware of this fact before posting your sarcasm.

[Homeownertoo]

The bible is NOT a book of history - it is a book that contains events from history (not a single author of any story in the bible would ever be labelled a "historian").

Historians are not the only authors of history. The Bible is probably one of the best sources of Hebrew history, even if many of it's stories and explanations are suspect or unconfirmed by other sources. In the ancient world much of the writing blames the gods for earthquakes and such, so of course the fall of Jericho was probably an earthquake. Most people who have read the Bible would dispute this.

Cornelius is far too much of a literalist to understand the kinds of subtleties that are involved in teasing historical meaning out of the Bible. Because it resorts to theological explanation for historical or natural events, he concludes it has nothing to offer the historian or archeologist. Fortunately, serious historians and archeologists tend to be of more subtle mind and look for clues within the allegorical content of the text.