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Paradigm Shift

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Paradigm Shift

Postby fluffy » Jan 20th, 2012, 10:21 am

Is it just me, or has the concept of self-actualization, the "be-all-you-can-be" school of thought, given way to one of criticism and fault-finding in others. I had a thought while surfing the forums this morning that it is becoming the norm to....well....whine about a situation/issue than actually giving thought to resolving it. Is this a wave washing over our society, or is it something that the internet and it's inherent anonymity does to attract people who share this perspective on life in general? I confess it was the "Occupy" thread that sparked this thought, but in retrospect it is much more pervasive than just that one area. Thoughts?
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby Lady tehMa » Jan 20th, 2012, 10:28 am

I think perhaps this is an outgrowth of the narcissistic society that has evolved. We are all super-special snowflakes, and the center of the universe. Therefore, any problem could not possibly be their fault. Ergo, it must be the fault of the other, and it is their duty to reveal this to the world at large with as much superiority and disdain as possible, to reinforce how absolutely perfect they are.

At one point I would have suggested it was internet-specific and anonymity-related, but I have overheard enough conversations in grocery lines, and had enough conversations in real life to know that is no longer the case. Entitlement complex is the legacy of the last wave of indulgent parenting. "I am perfect and I can do no wrong, so it is all YOUR fault."
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 20th, 2012, 10:37 am

One thought that immediately comes to mind is that the Occupiers are all over the board, not just in that one thread.

Another is that the sense of entitlement is pretty pervasive now. There's not a lot of personal responsibility left and it seems most people want someone to "fix it", make a law about it or just plain old give it to them without any effort or contribution on their part. Somehow they have this concept that they deserve whatever it is they desire.

I'm not too sure how we got to this point, but IMO the only way to fix it now is to take all the fluff away from them and let them struggle on their own until their sense of self-preservation kicks in to save their hides themselves. Contrary to what they think, the world owes them nothing. They owe it to themselves to make something of their lives.

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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby fluffy » Jan 20th, 2012, 11:00 am

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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 20th, 2012, 11:01 am

deleted by author because the Fluffster deleted his
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby steven lloyd » Jan 21st, 2012, 2:40 pm

not deleted by author - just wanted to say I did
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby kina » Mar 28th, 2012, 11:23 am

I find it terribly humorous that this topic hasn't gotten any further and has in fact turned into exactly what the OP claimed the problem to be: complaints being made and finger pointing being done but with no action taken to resolve the issue.

So I will try to continue where we left off. Grammafreddy offered her solution by stating that...
grammafreddy wrote:the only way to fix it now is to take all the fluff away from them and let them struggle on their own until their sense of self-preservation kicks in to save their hides themselves. Contrary to what they think, the world owes them nothing. They owe it to themselves to make something of their lives.


That, in a way is true. But what I believe might result from this is a population which is once again only concerned with their own survival and will go to any lengths and will step over any individual to survive. IMO, the reason that people do not take action these days to change what they believe is wrong is because, first of all, they feel powerless (or perhaps lazy) to do so and, second of all and what I believe is most important to consider, is that they have all lost the feeling of helping one another. We have become enemies to one another and fear getting help from each other. This has, in turn, made people feel as though they are the only person who is to be valued and the only one who is relevant to the situation. But no major changes can be made if people don't support each other. I don't mean they should always agree with each other. Quite the contrary since that is how we learn. But they should respect and tolerate the fact that not everybody is the same and just because they are not like you or don't think like you do doesn't mean that they are less worthy.

That is a difficult task to accomplish and would need to be done on a personal level for every individual. But the society in which we live is a big influence as well. I find that there is no room for behaving "differently" from what society has put in place as the way it should be. If a person decides to approach a particular topic in a different method, I find that society decides that the person is a "menace" and should be cast out. Nothing will change unless we do. Egocentricity is present in groups as well. If the norm was one of compassion, respect, and understanding instead of greed, malice, and bitterness, perhaps thing would actually get done.

I'm curious to hear what others may think of this. Any thoughts?
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby Homeownertoo » Aug 3rd, 2012, 8:58 am

I guess not.
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby steven lloyd » Aug 4th, 2012, 4:27 pm

Not that I agree with this statement, but it is sometimes said that the alcoholic or drug addict has to reach bottom before having an awakening that leads to the path of recovery. I don’t agree with that statement because I’ve often seen both alcoholics and drug addicts have an epiphany before reaching rock bottom. Marxist theory suggests capitalism will one day fail as a consequence of revolution as the gap between the haves and have-nots finally becomes unacceptable. Neo-marxism explains why that hasn’t happened as yet (unions, globalization, etc.), and let’s face it – the logistics involved in a revolution on a global scale are pretty far-fetched. For these and other reasons I suspect humankind will collectively put up with a lot and go through much unrest before there is any massive or significant collective paradigm shift.

We live in a system defined by competition (requiring both winners and losers), and the mechanisms by which the playing field can be levelled (note how professional sports leagues employ drafts to ensure no one team achieves ultimate superiority) enjoy varying degrees of attention – depending on how many resources can be “spared”. Concepts of social consciousness and mutual responsibility are often confused with entitlement while pervasive collusion and greed is excused as ambition. Ours is a paradigm that measures success in the short term and ignores the long term consequences of a system that depends on infinite growth and consumption but exists in a finite world. Fortunately, humankind has the potential to move those boundaries. Unfortunately, we are perhaps rapidly reaching the place in our history where we will have no choice but to evolve and become less self-serving and more collaborative to fully realize our potential as a species.
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby Homeownertoo » Aug 4th, 2012, 5:11 pm

steven lloyd wrote:Not that I agree with this statement, but it is sometimes said that the alcoholic or drug addict has to reach bottom before having an awakening that leads to the path of recovery. I don’t agree with that statement because I’ve often seen both alcoholics and drug addicts have an epiphany before reaching rock bottom. Marxist theory suggests capitalism will one day fail as a consequence of revolution as the gap between the haves and have-nots finally becomes unacceptable. Neo-marxism explains why that hasn’t happened as yet (unions, globalization, etc.), and let’s face it – the logistics involved in a revolution on a global scale are pretty far-fetched. For these and other reasons I suspect humankind will collectively put up with a lot and go through much unrest before there is any massive or significant collective paradigm shift.

We live in a system defined by competition (requiring both winners and losers), and the mechanisms by which the playing field can be levelled (note how professional sports leagues employ drafts to ensure no one team achieves ultimate superiority) enjoy varying degrees of attention – depending on how many resources can be “spared”. Concepts of social consciousness and mutual responsibility are often confused with entitlement while pervasive collusion and greed is excused as ambition. Ours is a paradigm that measures success in the short term and ignores the long term consequences of a system that depends on infinite growth and consumption but exists in a finite world. Fortunately, humankind has the potential to move those boundaries. Unfortunately, we are perhaps rapidly reaching the place in our history where we will have no choice but to evolve and become less self-serving and more collaborative to fully realize our potential as a species.

Are you sure about that alleged potential? There is no biological law or even mechanism that suggests any such potential, and evolution doesn't even work that way, as i am sure you know. And considering that we as a species have achieved more in the past two centuries than we ever managed over the previous (name your period), I'd say capitalism remains by far our best shot at achieving our potential over anything else humans have tinkered with or dreamed up in 10,000 years of what could remotely be called civilization building. I give humans credit for some appreciation, now, of what our potential and limits are. We know, broadly, what works and what doesn't, and while imagination remains our greatest resource (that after all is what capitalism draws upon and the one thing its critics always fail to take into account), wishful thinking upon the building blocks of broken dreams is unlikely to prove the way forward.
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby steven lloyd » Aug 4th, 2012, 5:22 pm

Homeownertoo wrote: Are you sure about that alleged potential?

The potential? Yes – I am sure. I only need to look at the accomplishments you have alluded to and the acceleration in our rate of technological advancement to confirm that. Yes, I too grant capitalism its due and do not suggest we turn backward toward some “building blocks of broken dreams” to compensate for its inherent flaws. As I alluded to in my post (and have alluded to before), even professional sports leagues recognize that their leagues (paradigms) would ultimately fail without any overseeing and collaberative interference to continually level the playing field. As this planet continues to grow more crowded, and the need to expand our (finite?) boundaries continues to increase, I would suggest we are going to one day quite soon have to collectively look beyond the simplistic way we often want to define and limit things now.
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby Homeownertoo » Aug 5th, 2012, 8:28 am

We seem to be drawing different conclusions from the same data. My question, however, is what do you think that 'potential' is going to look like, apart from having a greater collective component. And anyway, that is where we go our different ways. I believe we've looked down that road of greater collectivization and realized, at least the more perceptive of us, that it holds little promise. I am not really talking hear about 70 years of sovietism or rather fewer years of maoism (though their lessons are clear), but of our confounding experience with the UN in its myriad manifestations, or even the more local example of the eurozone. Transnational organizations have their place but appear to function best in the economic sphere (corporations, IMF, G20, free-trade zones, etc.) and pointedly not in the political sphere, where they inevitably, it seems, degenerate into lowest-common denominator gangs that ignore or trample upon all those things liberals of the left and right hold dear. There is a reason the Right in particular is so suspicious of political globalization; they clearly see themselves in its cross-hairs. I see more hope for mankind in the US constitution than in whatever today underpins the UN, which is what I meant when I stated earlier that "I give humans credit for some appreciation, now, of what our potential and limits are. We know, broadly, what works and what doesn't." I fear, rather than look for salvation, in greater collectivization, Star Trek notwithstanding.
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby fvkasm2x » Aug 5th, 2012, 12:59 pm

I think a major factor in all of this is the loss of responsibility we are raised with. It seems as though everyone always blames other people now. People are always looking for an easy way out, for someone else to be responsible.

Get fired from your job because you're lazy and always calling in sick? Well you probably weren't trained right. Life isn't fair. Your boss hates you for no reason.

Your kid is a little monster because you suck at parenting? He's got ADD. People overreact. He's really an angel who made an innocent mistake.

You get the idea.
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Re: Paradigm Shift

Postby Lady tehMa » Aug 8th, 2012, 11:36 am

fvkasm2x wrote:I think a major factor in all of this is the loss of responsibility we are raised with. It seems as though everyone always blames other people now. People are always looking for an easy way out, for someone else to be responsible.

Get fired from your job because you're lazy and always calling in sick? Well you probably weren't trained right. Life isn't fair. Your boss hates you for no reason.

Your kid is a little monster because you suck at parenting? He's got ADD. People overreact. He's really an angel who made an innocent mistake.

You get the idea.


Agreed, and then some. So the question is, how do we get from where we are now, to where we should/could be? How do we get the majority of the population to take of the reins of responsibility that they have so far disdained?
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