Boonstock forging ahead

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Drip_Torch
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by Drip_Torch »

Well, as we heard Pierre Kruger, PIB Elder, say in a Global news report back then. "I feel sad when young people die unnecessarily. We can't control them you know."

And according to the BC Major Planned Events Guidelines...


... I'll add, from page 13, "Occasionally, despite the best plans and risk management practices, a death may occur at a Major Planned Event."

Seems to me it's acknowledged as a "fact of life". ... it happens.
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FreeRights
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by FreeRights »

Drip_Torch wrote:
... I'll add, from page 13, "Occasionally, despite the best plans and risk management practices, a death may occur at a Major Planned Event."

Seems to me it's acknowledged as a "fact of life". ... it happens.

In this particular case though, it's hard to say whether or not it "should" have happened.

If it's accurate that this person was on the ground for an extended period of time, and if it's true that there was restricted access to water, then this may not have been a "fact of life" and should not "have happened."
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by WTTG »

Ah well, us four would really like to see Boonstock become a huge success, because we think this billion dollar industry in Canada deserves some genuine respect, and the Pentiction region deserves to have a good piece of that pie. Still, we do have our fun here on Castanet, yet hope people can come to understand the real-world work under real identities that it might take to improve on the first year's outing.

Hey DT, thanks for the good read today.
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

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FreeRights wrote:In this particular case though, it's hard to say whether or not it "should" have happened.

If it's accurate that this person was on the ground for an extended period of time, and if it's true that there was restricted access to water, then this may not have been a "fact of life" and should not "have happened."



To say the person was on the ground for an extended period of time is false, when she died the first night of the festival. It was reported that she died from an overdose, not from restricted access to water.
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Drip_Torch
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by Drip_Torch »

Seems like the RCMP went crazy on Boonstocks expense account, charging up whatever they wanted.


Despite the fact that I am concerned with some aspects of this bill, I don't it see it as such.

About the only receipt that seems remotely questionable is for the sunscreen. a) members have an allocation for incidentals in the per diem, and b) the receipt is dated July 15... (I suspect this should have been expensed against the three mile family beach coalition - lol, just kidding. ) A member is brought in from out of town and needs sunscreen... drop everything and drive to London Drugs and buy it from per diem, or steady as she goes here's a bottle... kind of a no brainer, really. You've gotta feed and water the horses, so strap a cooler on the back of the ATV and distribute the water to positions - can't say that seems unreasonable, in fact, the word I'd use to describe it is efficient.

I ground the number down a little more based on the *bleep* in the ATIP... 193 meals (shifts) = puts it at $990 per officer day. That's right where I'd expect to see it. ( I used to have a column that needed a number every 16 days, long ago, before I developed an aversion to columns, a dislike of rows and completely lost faith in numbers.) The only reason I bring this up is I'd like to show the DJ's, and Penticton's congress, there is a significant amount of expense and investment undertaken in an event like this, and if we wish to encourage this type of activity in and around our city we should be working towards increasing the degree of certainty that the promoter faces with the policing costs.

Security plan discussions aside... the thing that raises my eyebrow about the policing costs is the amount of risk downloaded onto the promoter and IMHO it seems to be approaching unreasonable. The promoter takes on the operational policing costs, the contingency costs and seems to be taking on the cost of dealing with criminal behaviour as well. Perhaps I'm being wrong headed on this point, but does the bank pay for sheriffs services when a bank robber is caught? I mean seriously, if it wasn't for the bank there wouldn't be any bank robbers. IMHO, Once the handcuffs are on an individual they are no longer under the care and control of boonstock and therefore I think it reasonably follows - not their responsibility.

So, I guess what I'm suggesting I'd like to see the adults sit down and discuss is where the line is drawn between festival policing and typical criminal justice administration. In short, I'm not concerned with per diem, bungee cords or a box of cherries, but I am concerned with the degree of uncertainty the promoter is faced with when you start expensing back for jail guards, damaged sheriffs vehicles and police investigations/media relations around an unfortunate sudden death. I know there are some people that will speculate that none of that would have happened if it wasn't for boonstock, but I call bs... things like that happen all the time in our society. If it didn't, Boonstock would have simply called the detachment and asked for 40 paid on call police officers and they would have been happy to practice the skills they were trained in, cost about $17.50 an hour, and been thrilled if someone was considerate enough to throw a box of pizza down on a table in their vicinity, 8 hours into their shift.

Oh.. and yeah, I agree the contingency expendables could probably be dealt with differently.

IMHO - based on the limited information available in this ATIP, and other news reports, I see about a $12,000 conversation that would be worth following through on.
Last edited by Drip_Torch on Nov 24th, 2014, 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by Drip_Torch »

In this particular case though, it's hard to say whether or not it "should" have happened.


In the absence of a coroners report, that establishes cause of death, and a report from authorities that establishes the circumstances around that sudden death, it's not just hard to say whether or not it "should" have happened - it's impossible to do anything other than speculate.
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Corneliousrooster
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by Corneliousrooster »

Does anyone have a link to the expenses incurred by police for the Center of Gravity Festival in Kelowna? I would figure the sunscreen and car detailing expenses would be similar???

Being the officers are uniformed and have minimal skin available for sun exposure their claim surprises me quite a bit (especially for 3 or 4 days total). If it is a winter festival would the promoter be on the hook for scarves and mittens? Lipgloss?

Bean bags and rape kits (unused at that) and pepper spray and zap strap handcuffs get charged to the promoter? Do the RCMP present an itemized list of all the potential charges of all the potential equipment that may be involved in an operation prior to their service agreement? If you hire a roofing contractor for a certain price and then when the work is done the itemize charges for nails and tar and disposal and sun screen after the fact they would run themselves out of business in about a week. Nice for the RCMP monopoly though i guess....
Gixxer
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by Gixxer »

Why would the tax payer be on the hook for this bill??
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by mrmagoo »

Oh good grief. Of course the costs are downloaded onto a private event organizer. They are creating the higher risk and profiting from it personally.

Protection from the normal course of business and expected risks is part of what we pay taxes for. I'm not willing to put my tax dollars to work to subsidize a risky venture likely to need a whole lot of police resources unless it is clearly in the public interest to do so.

As for the death, I have no idea whether it was preventable. I do know that on that night water was not readily available inside the concert area and that there were reports that she was not immediately attended to. Whether the reports about delay are true or not I have no idea. It would be good to have an independent report on this.

What is true is that Boonstock has failed to pay the RCMP costs which I'm not happy with as a taxpayer.
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by Tony »

Gixxer wrote:Why would the tax payer be on the hook for this bill??

Because the taxpayers pay the salary for the RCMP on a daily basis - they're a Government organization, thus funded by taxes. It's not like the taxpayers will get a bill for it - it will be absorbed, but it will come from taxpayers dollars unless Boonstock steps up.
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by mrmagoo »

Tony wrote:Because the taxpayers pay the salary for the RCMP on a daily basis - they're a Government organization, thus funded by taxes. It's not like the taxpayers will get a bill for it - it will be absorbed, but it will come from taxpayers dollars unless Boonstock steps up.


"It will be absorbed" what? Is there some magic wallet here? No, just some magical thinking.

Taxpayers pay taxes. The taxes go to support the regular course of RCMP business. When large events are held by private parties the organizers are required to pay the extra costs from the profits because taxpayers shouldn't be expected to do so because it increases private profits at the expense of everyone who pays taxes - the majority of whom likely would not support this.

A $200,000 plus loss to the public purse from this event, the cost of which was increased due to the poor security of the event organizers, seems ridiculous to me. Every city requires a policing deposit for special events by private organizers which require additional policing costs. Boonstock stated it had paid the deposit as required - turns out they lied about that and now they still haven't paid the bill.
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by Tony »

mrmagoo wrote:
"It will be absorbed" what? Is there some magic wallet here? No, just some magical thinking.

Taxpayers pay taxes. The taxes go to support the regular course of RCMP business. When large events are held by private parties the organizers are required to pay the extra costs from the profits because taxpayers shouldn't be expected to do so because it increases private profits at the expense of everyone who pays taxes - the majority of whom likely would not support this.

A $200,000 plus loss to the public purse from this event, the cost of which was increased due to the poor security of the event organizers, seems ridiculous to me. Every city requires a policing deposit for special events by private organizers which require additional policing costs. Boonstock stated it had paid the deposit as required - turns out they lied about that and now they still haven't paid the bill.


That's what I mean. It will be absorbed into the public purse, which is funded by taxpayers. Of course there's no "magic wallet", and it's not "magical thinking". It will be absorbed into the public purse as mentioned. You're saying the same thing, just a little more descriptive.
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by Atomoa »

So - who wants to front the security services for these promoters for their next festival?

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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by madmudder »

Atomoa wrote:So - who wants to front the security services for these promoters for their next festival?

Cheques in the mail.


The same ones that front the security for the Challenge Race. The taxpayers of Penticton.
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Re: Boonstock forging ahead

Post by twobits »

Wonder if the Canucks got a bill for policing after losing to Boston in game 7? After all, somebody didn't plan ahead adequately and security shortfalls were identified that required members to fill in the gaps
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