This didn't take long!

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madmudder
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by madmudder »

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The City undertook a significant public consultation process to develop the Downtown Plan in 2012, and held several consultation sessions at the markets asking people to "Tell us about Your Main Street" in 2014. Public input and stakeholder feedback have been a vital component of the revitalization process, as it's shaped project proposals for the better.



You call that a significant public consultation process. LOL Was it for tourists or the taxpayers of Penticton? You want to know how the taxpayers of Penticton feel then mail out some questionnaires. This wasn't done because it was known what the outcome would be. Just do it then send out the shills to defend it. If councill and staff can't speak to the public about their deeds and misdeeds then *bleep* off. I guess water and sewer mains can't be replaced without spending millions on beautification.LOL
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Daspoot
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by Daspoot »

twobits wrote:
Lol, who is the narcissist here? Look up the definition.
I think you should take your own advice.

I don't see self important opinions being conveyed here. Quite the contrary actually. I see people promoting inclusion in a decision that directly benefits a few at the expense of the collective. And the collective picking up a tab is not a bad thing....as you say, that is why we elect a council....to make decisions. How I personally differentiate this topic of revite VS the "business of running the city", is that this revite has not been proven to be an immediate need or priority. Until I am presented with verifiable evidence that there is an impending failure of downtown infrastructure, or dire lack of capacity, then these capital funds are then being used as a discretionary slush fund. I am also of the opinion that when we are looking at spending discretionary funds, this spending should be presented with complete transparency including options and outcomes for each option. I have seen none and have even asked for a link to an engineering report that would support an immediate need. To date I have seen nothing except a sales job to the taxpayer.
When one can publically state like Simone has that the reason is that the infrastructure is in dire need, yet provide no evidence, and include electrical....which is not even on Main St.....do no red flags go up for you? They do for me and many others.


So before the elected council makes these decisions they should "present you with verifiable evidence of a impending failure of infrastucture" and present you with the engineers reports.

Maybe Jakubeit should go door to door any time Penticton taxpayer money is spent eh? After all, if they should hold your hand and calmly explain all the details to you, they should do it for your neighbour, and their neighbour, etc. etc.

Maybe everyone in Penticton should be on council and get to vote on everything. Or is just you and just this matter?
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Rocky101
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by Rocky101 »

What disappoints me is that we as residence of Penticton had a chance to Vote and make a change as to how we want to see our city progress and only 8000 + showed up to vote.

Instead of arguing amongst ourselves why don't we actually come up with and solve the problems that we are facing.
Sorry for the rant.
twobits
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by twobits »

Daspoot wrote:
Maybe everyone in Penticton should be on council and get to vote on everything. Or is just you and just this matter?


No, that is just silly and unworkable. You have clearly missed the point that when we are talking about beautician projects, discretionary spending, the process has to be much more transparent and the community much more involved and informed of the plan, it's cost's, and any potential consequences of not proceeding immediately. This downtown revite planning seems to be more clique driven.
Compare these downtown revite's to that of the lakeshore walkway. Regardless of how one viewed that project, I would suggest it was a much superior example of public process. Reasons were laid out, at least four options were laid out, and it was a community discussion for several months. Unlike plan details, options and costs essentially being shared with 34 property owners. Token survey at the farmers market. One line references to committee meeting minutes.
Why not some informative 1/4 page ads like the walkway received to stir some community input? If they did things like that perhaps more members of the community would embrace the project rather than feeling that they are being told what is best for them and just sit down and behave.
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Darkre
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by Darkre »

Maybe the people who were against the project could accept the election results as a referendum on the Downtown Revitalization Project. After all the mayoral and council candidates that ran on the platform of revisiting or cancelling the project lost the election. In fact many of the people against this project implied that the Vassiliki flip flop on this subject would hand him the election. Maybe not as many people are against the project as you seem to think.
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Daspoot
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by Daspoot »

Like almost anything, people against something are far more vocal than people who support something, see the Summerland ALR swap for another example.
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twobits
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by twobits »

Darkre wrote:Maybe the people who were against the project could accept the election results as a referendum on the Downtown Revitalization Project. After all the mayoral and council candidates that ran on the platform of revisiting or cancelling the project lost the election. In fact many of the people against this project implied that the Vassiliki flip flop on this subject would hand him the election. Maybe not as many people are against the project as you seem to think.


Do you seriously think the election was a referendum on the downtown revite? I think not. If anything, the downtown revite was on very few voters minds and if you want to peg an issue for this election, it was Boonstock. Just look at the past comments of those elected and you will find that all of them supported Boonstock, while some only supported the downtown revite luke warm.
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fluffy
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by fluffy »

Funny, I had the feeling that it was more of a who-had-the-prettiest-signs thing this time around.
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XT225
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by XT225 »

There is a very good letter to the editor in the Penticton Herald today, suggesting that perhaps the city could block off one lane of traffic downtown for a while, just to see if this idea of cutting down to two lanes from three will work or not. What a great idea and the in-kind work would cost little to nothing. If they go ahead and spend millions and THEN find that two lanes doesn't work, then what? Definately time to think outside the box at all options.
southy
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by southy »

XT - not a bad idea. Hope they get it done before his Worship Jak starts forming his committees. This really scares me. You think the Main Street issue is bad, just wait till these hand picked, liked minded committee members get hold of those bike lane proposals - God help us.
XT225
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by XT225 »

southy wrote:XT - not a bad idea. Hope they get it done before his Worship Jak starts forming his committees. This really scares me. You think the Main Street issue is bad, just wait till these hand picked, liked minded committee members get hold of those bike lane proposals - God help us.


The reason that a suggested "trial" like this will likely never see the light of day, is that it might just work and show those inside the city that going to two lanes is not a good idea..and they don't want to see THEIR plan fail. Some will say that because we elected Jackebite (and he was really pushing to spend the lot on downtown) that we the public approve of it, as it stands. I dont believe that for one second, especially when the city management suggested NOT going to referendum, as it would most likely fail. Thats because Democracy in such a project shows what the people really want. If others are against the revite program as it stands, and cutting out one land of traffic, they should be speaking up NOW, not later.
twobits
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by twobits »

XT225 wrote:There is a very good letter to the editor in the Penticton Herald today, suggesting that perhaps the city could block off one lane of traffic downtown for a while, just to see if this idea of cutting down to two lanes from three will work or not. What a great idea and the in-kind work would cost little to nothing. If they go ahead and spend millions and THEN find that two lanes doesn't work, then what? Definately time to think outside the box at all options.


I like the idea of a test pattern as well. Problem I see is how do you duplicate with barricades what the city is proposing? How do you create temporary angle parking with a widened sidewalk cutting traffic to the two centre lanes? The only thing that could practically be done is simulate the two lanes and forgo the parallel parking in that block for the trial period. I think the business owners would vehemently object. Does anyone see a practical way to test this cuz I really like the idea of testing before millions are spent.
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XT225
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by XT225 »

twobits wrote:
I like the idea of a test pattern as well. Problem I see is how do you duplicate with barricades what the city is proposing? How do you create temporary angle parking with a widened sidewalk cutting traffic to the two centre lanes? The only thing that could practically be done is simulate the two lanes and forgo the parallel parking in that block for the trial period. I think the business owners would vehemently object. Does anyone see a practical way to test this cuz I really like the idea of testing before millions are spent.


I am happy to see that others would also like to "test the waters" before committing millions of tax dollars to something that may not work. I don't think that WE, the public should be responsible for coming up with all the solutions on HOW to actually accomplish a test pattern. That's why we have highly paid professionals in City hall. They just have to be OPEN to a trial/ idea and not continually have blinders on. Perhaps they could just block off the centre lane for a while with some barricades, bollards (don't we just hate that word) or yellow lines. Maybe just let the delivery trucks that block the curb lanes on a daily basis, park in the centre lane..lol. However it might be done, it was one heck of a good idea that Mr. Henderson came up with. ETA: I noticed today while driving the entire length of Skaha Lake Road that it needs repaving badly; and are is much worse shape than the two blocks of Main Street in question.
XT225
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by XT225 »

I was dissapointed to read in the paper today that the final decisions for the Main Street upgrade will be made on December 15th. It was also shocking to see that now the cost figure has escalated to over $3.5 million for only two blocks of Main Street. Wasn't it quoted as around $2.5 million (before the election)? And, its not even done yet; seldom do these projects come in on or under budget; unless they wise up and start trimming things that we do NOT need (ie: like the narrowing of the street to two lanes from three). I WAS pleased to see that the infrastructure work IS in the 2015 budget for Corey Place; that is badly needed. What about the rest of the city though? Roads are a maze of potholes and patchwork that needs serious attention; and now we have one new councillor talking about an outdoor ice rink? Sure...when the piggy bank is full and taxes are low but NOT now for goodness sake. That would be like a homeowner opting to buy a hot tub instead of attending to their roof which is leaking and in need of immediate repair. I was really hoping for change in the new city council; that doesn't appear to be the case at all.
ETA: I guess the councillor who suggested this ice rink hasn't heard how the one in Kelowna is doing: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=59779
twobits
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Re: This didn't take long!

Post by twobits »

XT225 wrote: and now we have one new councillor talking about an outdoor ice rink? Sure...when the piggy bank is full and taxes are low but NOT now for goodness sake. That would be like a homeowner opting to buy a hot tub instead of attending to their roof which is leaking and in need of immediate repair. I was really hoping for change in the new city council; that doesn't appear to be the case at all.


The thread title is so appropriate. Barely a week in office and we have our first example of clueless and lack of fiscal conscience for the taxpayer. A pet project that no matter how built would be a constant and perpetual hit on the City's operations budget.
Makes about as much sense to me as building an outdoor pool next to the community center so people can swim outdoors for free for a cpl of months of the summer.

Can't wait for the bartender's first brilliant idea. Am thinking it will only take six months for people to be thankful that Sentes, Konanz, Martin, and Watt are four votes against three!
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

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