Electrical rates to go up

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hozzle
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

Post by hozzle »

twobits wrote:Kudos to Konanz for her call out on electrical rates!!!! Please note that our new mayor Jak, Sentes, and Sayeed were opposed. Two months in and these people already scare the *bleep* out of me. Konanz is bang on when she says that electrical rates hikes should be passed on at wholesale rates.
For those that might be confused.....when Fortis announces a rate hike, it is a percentage rate hike on their retail pricing. So if Fortis rates are say 10 cents a KW hour, a 5% increase would be 10.5 cents a KW/hr. A clear increase of .5 cents per hour.
The reality however is that the city buys power at discounted wholesale rates and that 5% increase in power rates is less than the .5 cents increase in retail rates.
Bottom line is that the city, by increasing their rates at Fortis's % increase, or even something in between the BCUC approved rate and something more than the 5% that rate would be applied to the city's wholesale cost of power, the City is increasing their profit margin every time!!!!!
So what does this all mean? Quite frankly....an additional tax on the gullible. The people that hear Fortis going up by 5 means mine is going up by 5. And for the city, it means an increased margin to the slush fund to draw on yr after yr to balance a provincially mandated balanced budget. When is this covert taxation going to end?
It gets even worse cuz every one of those increases get compounded on top of the previous ones. IMO, a city owned utility should be in place for providing a cost effective service. One that is owned by the taxpayers for the taxpayer's benefit. It should not be a profit center. It should cover it's costs administratively as well as have it's own capital expenditure budget for future maintenance and expansion. Those needs are clearly covered in our electrical utilities forecast budgets.
Instead, our electrical utility budget has become a slush fun to raid to cover the flavour of the day.
It is just plain wrong. Mayor Jak, Councillor Sentes and Sayeed.....I await your rebuttal.
And I do know you read these threads.


XT225 wrote:Bang on, Twobits. I, to, applaud Helen and shame on Jak, Sentes and Sayeed. The city makes money off you and I (with the electrical utility) and then pads their Capital accounts for these mega million dollar beautification projects that would never pass a referendum, if they had the chance to get on the ballot. Disgusting performance by this city council (except for Helen) so far.


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madmudder
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

Post by madmudder »

Way to go Jak . Instead of giving the school board a break on electricity(which is already being paid for by a majority of our property taxes) why don't you lobby your friend Dan Ashton for the school board. It's easy to spend money you don't earn.
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

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madmudder wrote:Way to go Jak . Instead of giving the school board a break on electricity(which is already being paid for by a majority of our property taxes) why don't you lobby your friend Dan Ashton for the school board. It's easy to spend money you don't earn.


Lobby Ashton for what? It's our city councillors that set the electrical rate increase, not the Province. Council could have just let the Fortis rate increase flow through at the City's actual increase on wholesale rates. Instead they chose to take the opportunity to increase their own margin on the resale of power. What do you not understand about that?

What really baffles me is the hypocrisy of councillors that tout economic development, attracting industry and jobs yada yada yada and one of the very first things that they do only 2 months into their mandate is further increase the cost of doing business in Penticton. The electrical rates are already among the highest, certainly more than Fortis serviced areas, and out of one side of their mouth they speak "attracting industry" while the other side says we need the electrical revenues to raid for the budget. And then the icing on the cake is increasing the economic development budget by hundreds of thousands of dollars when they have just further hamstrung the effort of attracting industry with some of the highest business and industrial electrical rates in the Province???????
I will finish this with a question of sorts. Greenwood Forest Products is on the other side of the Channel. Does anyone think that if they had to relocate from their current Fortis supplied site that they would ever consider land within the City? Now take that thought to the next logical step. Where would any new business choose to locate and what will soon be available?
Compete or cease to exist. I don't see council's decision as a desire to be competitive.
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Anonymous123
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Re: Electrical rates to go up (Penticton)

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Debbi
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

Post by Debbi »

When will they quit raising the electric costs. My electric consumption is half of what is was last winter, month by month but the bills are higher.
Go figure, something must be done to stop the increases, not sure what though.
I feel sorry for people on fixed incomes.

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bob vernon
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

Post by bob vernon »

Your rates went up to pay for the North West Transmission line. It is built from near Terrace up the west side of the province to Bob Quinn. Several mines are located in the area. The line officially cost about $750,000,000 with additional costs for buying privately generated hydro at inflated rates that were set years ago before the recession. The $750 million was borrowed by Hydro and they can't make any money back from the subsidized electrical generation they must buy, so the only other source of money is you.

https://www.bchydro.com/energy-in-bc/projects/ntl.html
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maryjane48
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

Post by maryjane48 »

the mines should have chipped in?
twobits
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

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bob vernon wrote:Your rates went up to pay for the North West Transmission line. It is built from near Terrace up the west side of the province to Bob Quinn. Several mines are located in the area. The line officially cost about $750,000,000 with additional costs for buying privately generated hydro at inflated rates that were set years ago before the recession. The $750 million was borrowed by Hydro and they can't make any money back from the subsidized electrical generation they must buy, so the only other source of money is you.

https://www.bchydro.com/energy-in-bc/projects/ntl.html


I am quite unhappy with the electrical rates but your explanation of the reason is both moronic in understanding and obviously partisan politics. It is the hydro developments of the past that spurred economic activity and the jobs that came with them. There would be no Teck coal mines (Fording) or Alcans without the foresight of previous leaders that allowed or contributed to this kind of infrastructure investment. The outskirts of our Province would today be economic dead zones without that investment in infrastructure.
The NW Transmission Line is akin to a hwy being built into virgin territory. The benefits of it are not immediate. If you could see past the end of your personal nose, obvious NDP rhetoric, and actually consider the dividends that such an investment will provide for your children, and theirs, you might begin to understand that your argument is a false diversion devoid of any basis in fact.
You are doing nothing more than promoting a socialist mantra that sounds familiar to Dix saying no pipeline to Vancouver.
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FSmith59
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

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I have an empty apartment in Penticton. I maintain my city utilities for this apartment, to keep them on. This apartment has NO regular usage of power/water.

My utility bill for this property has doubled in the last year, and the "usage" also shows up on my bill as double.

There is NO usage on this property.

I understand that the utility will not physically show up and regularly read the meter, and will "estimate" usage, based on past usage.

When I brought this up with the City, they told me I could install a duplicate meter, at my expense, to see if the City meter was faulty.
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

Post by twobits »

FSmith59 wrote:
When I brought this up with the City, they told me I could install a duplicate meter, at my expense, to see if the City meter was faulty.


Everything that weighs or measures volume that is used to determine pricing is under the jurisdiction of Measurement Canada. Everything from the weigh scales in grocery stores to gas pumps must be certified as accurate by Measurement Canada. If you suspect your meter is faulty there is a dispute mechanism in place that the utilities do not like the general public to know about. With a 25 dollar fee, you can "Dispute" your meter. The City, by law, must remove your meter and replace it with another one. They then send the disputed meter to a qualified testing facility where a Measurement Canada Employee will test the meter for accuracy. There just happens to be such a meter facility right here in Penticton at the Fortis building on Government and Okanagan. One of two in the Province. If your meter tests to be more than 2% out, one of two things will happen. If the meter has been overcharging you, then you will be refunded all charges in excess of 2% for the previous 12 months and receive your $25 dispute fee back. If the meter has actually been undercharging you, you will be billed for anything more than 2% for the previous 12 months and forfeit your $25 dispute fee.
If the City gives you the run around on the dispute process, phone Measurement Canada and ask for assistance.
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FSmith59
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

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twobits wrote:Everything that weighs or measures volume that is used to determine pricing is under the jurisdiction of Measurement Canada. Everything from the weigh scales in grocery stores to gas pumps must be certified as accurate by Measurement Canada. If you suspect your meter is faulty there is a dispute mechanism in place that the utilities do not like the general public to know about. With a 25 dollar fee, you can "Dispute" your meter. The City, by law, must remove your meter and replace it with another one. They then send the disputed meter to a qualified testing facility where a Measurement Canada Employee will test the meter for accuracy. There just happens to be such a meter facility right here in Penticton at the Fortis building on Government and Okanagan. One of two in the Province. If your meter tests to be more than 2% out, one of two things will happen. If the meter has been overcharging you, then you will be refunded all charges in excess of 2% for the previous 12 months and receive your $25 dispute fee back. If the meter has actually been undercharging you, you will be billed for anything more than 2% for the previous 12 months and forfeit your $25 dispute fee.
If the City gives you the run around on the dispute process, phone Measurement Canada and ask for assistance.


Thank you. I was told that to do the meter change would be $25. Not much in the long run, really, if it turns out it is faulty. I specifically asked about being refunded the $25 if it turns out my meter is faulty. The lady at the counter at City Hall had no answer to that.
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

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You have to request a "dispute". That is part of the $25 fee they are not telling you about. And the part they do not want the public to know about. Don't go in and say I want my meter changed........ go in and make the declaration that you want to "dispute" your meter. You will in all likelihood have a clerk that does not know what you are talking about but I can guarantee you that someone up the chain of command will know what your rights as a consumer are. This also applies to Fortis Gas meters within City limits as well to electrical and gas supplied customers everywhere in the Province. Does not matter who your electrical or gas provider is in the Province......Fed rules and Measurement Canada regs trump everything.
Gas meters a particularly notorious for inaccuracy. Basically two opposing accordion bellows that drive a crank and two slide valves and the stroke of the two bellows determines your volume of use.
Look at the metal tag that is attached to the wiring seals that go thru holes in the heads of the screws between the top of the meter and the dials of your meter. It will have a year stamp on it which means the year that Measurement Canada certified that meter. If it is getting long in tooth.....over 15 yrs.....youi might want to dispute it. Be cautioned however because just as frequently that the meters fail on the plus side, they fail on the minus side. Be sure you think it is reading high before you "dispute" or else you could be paying for past usage you were not billed for.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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FSmith59
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

Post by FSmith59 »

twobits wrote:You have to request a "dispute". That is part of the $25 fee they are not telling you about. And the part they do not want the public to know about. Don't go in and say I want my meter changed........ go in and make the declaration that you want to "dispute" your meter. You will in all likelihood have a clerk that does not know what you are talking about but I can guarantee you that someone up the chain of command will know what your rights as a consumer are. This also applies to Fortis Gas meters within City limits as well to electrical and gas supplied customers everywhere in the Province. Does not matter who your electrical or gas provider is in the Province......Fed rules and Measurement Canada regs trump everything.
Gas meters a particularly notorious for inaccuracy. Basically two opposing accordion bellows that drive a crank and two slide valves and the stroke of the two bellows determines your volume of use.
Look at the metal tag that is attached to the wiring seals that go thru holes in the heads of the screws between the top of the meter and the dials of your meter. It will have a year stamp on it which means the year that Measurement Canada certified that meter. If it is getting long in tooth.....over 15 yrs.....youi might want to dispute it. Be cautioned however because just as frequently that the meters fail on the plus side, they fail on the minus side. Be sure you think it is reading high before you "dispute" or else you could be paying for past usage you were not billed for.



Again, thank you.

I understand that if it is measuring low, I will have to pay the difference.

But I know it isn't. Like I said, that apartment has been empty for almost 2 years, but the usage, according to the City, has more than doubled. How is that possible if the unit is empty???
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Re: Electrical rates to go up

Post by twobits »

FSmith59 wrote:But I know it isn't. Like I said, that apartment has been empty for almost 2 years, but the usage, according to the City, has more than doubled. How is that possible if the unit is empty???


Either the meter is out of wack or someone else has tapped into your wiring. It's more common than you might think. Many apartments are built where adjoining units are mirror images of each other. That common wall separating the units will be identical in all plug locations and even the main breaker panel if it is that wall and it usually is. Anyone with just a little bit of electrical know how can exploit the neighbours circuit behind each one of their plugs and even the main conductor feeds entering the breaker panel. If the stoves are back to back, there is an easy one tap location providing a free 40 amp load.

Shut down your entire panel. You shouldn't need heat now anyway. If you lack a main breaker, just shut off every breaker in the panel. If you still show any kind of consumption, you have been tapped somewhere between your meter base in the mechanical room and your breaker panel. Given the restricted access to these mechanical rooms, there have been a number of unscrupulous landlords or building managers that have tapped right off of other meter bases and wired the power to the downstream side of their own meter. Done properly, the meter reader wouldn't even notice.
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