Green Avenue

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Dawnland
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by Dawnland »

driveangry wrote:Every town that has a highway threw it with reduced speed limit and/or traffic lights is an economic trap.

Therefore, it is not a trap because you know it is coming up, you know that there will be lights, reduced speed, a Tim Horton's and probably a Walmart so it isn't a trap.
Adding lights and reduced speed is just a sign of the economic expansion of the community.
I am quite happy that that particular area of our city is getting the opportunity for increased expansion and development. 150 acres of land was basically cut-off from any access and had no chance at being economically engaged for the last 60 years.
Along with the Barefoot Developments, Skaha Hills and the Okanagan Cross-fit expansion, it will be an exciting change for that area of town.
driveangry
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by driveangry »

Dawnland wrote:Therefore, it is not a trap because you know it is coming up, you know that there will be lights, reduced speed, a Tim Horton's and probably a Walmart so it isn't a trap.
Adding lights and reduced speed is just a sign of the economic expansion of the community.
I am quite happy that that particular area of our city is getting the opportunity for increased expansion and development. 150 acres of land was basically cut-off from any access and had no chance at being economically engaged for the last 60 years.
Along with the Barefoot Developments, Skaha Hills and the Okanagan Cross-fit expansion, it will be an exciting change for that area of town.



Well we will just have to agree to disagree,...

It doesn't make it any more or less of a trap if we know it's there, it's still a trap.

Even if we choose not to support these businesses it is still costs me and everyone, whether it's my time or someone else time that rely on these highways for employment or shipping goods at a reasonable amount of time, or fuel that's getting wasted, and the damage to the environment.

When a community and/or business has to rely on economic traps to survive, then they need to find the real problem for their lack of success.
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Daspoot
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by Daspoot »

That's it, I'm double-supporting the businesses to counter your boycott.
On a different forum
twobits
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Re: Green Avenue

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Dawnland wrote: 150 acres of land was basically cut-off from any access and had no chance at being economically engaged for the last 60 years.

Access to those lands has always been available. They have never been economically engaged for the last 60 yrs because certain parties have waited all these years for someone else's money to pay for easier access.
Now you have it, as per agreements that were made when the Oxbows were channelized. Let's see what is done with it now. The current silence speaks volumes and also why private equity has not stepped up to the plate in the past to build this new access you will now have. The next two years will tell us where the bear shytes in the woods.
Or will it be a multi million tax dollar boondoggle like the Osoyoos Band's Industrial Park where the only building built 5 years ago by Greyback Construction remains with no tenant? The Park is there complete with water, natural gas, electrical, and a private sewage treatment plant. Empty......except now for the prison which I think was a Gov't decision to save face for all the millions they pumped into it considering it was well outside of the RFP document catchment area criteria.

ETA- And food for thought.....had this crossing been in place two yrs ago, would the new prison be on PIB airport lands? I think so. Much to the chagrin of the city with no say in the matter.
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by Tony »

Dawnland wrote:Therefore, it is not a trap because you know it is coming up, you know that there will be lights, reduced speed, a Tim Horton's and probably a Walmart so it isn't a trap.
Adding lights and reduced speed is just a sign of the economic expansion of the community.
I am quite happy that that particular area of our city is getting the opportunity for increased expansion and development. 150 acres of land was basically cut-off from any access and had no chance at being economically engaged for the last 60 years.
Along with the Barefoot Developments, Skaha Hills and the Okanagan Cross-fit expansion, it will be an exciting change for that area of town.


I'm thrilled to see the expansions in that area. I think Barefoot is a huge boon to that end of the lake and the Cross Fit expansion will hopefully be busy this summer. Not sure how you figure a WalMart will be in the new development. There's one just up the street that has recently been renovated to a new footprint, so I can't see that happening anytime soon. Goodness knows that Tim Horton's and Starbucks will probably make an appearance, but only if there's other tenants. People are wondering because in the past there has been the "Future site of the new Theatre" and we know how that went. There hasn't been any announcements of any kind as to who is coming to the other side of what is right now, the bridge to no where.

Not sure how you can say there's been no access. Palmer Sather has been able to get in and out with no problem what so ever. If you wanted to punch a road through the end of the trailer park, that would also give access. Come from the other side through the mill and the log home guys and you're there. Can you please explain the "no access" comment?
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by twobits »

Tony, you missed the post previous to yours. There always has been access to these lands as you point out. It has just not been access that supports mega development that no one on that side of the channel wants to belly up to the bar and make. As usual, it requires someone else's chequebook.
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Dawnland
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by Dawnland »

Tony, I was trying to provide 'driveangry' with tell-tale signs of economic activity so as to not be trapped by the bright lights and rollback prices.
Twobits, you seem to think that the installation of a bridge is the whole project? There has to be roadway and services on the other side. This bridge is just one pie we have in the oven. There will be a whole host of services that need to be supplied at our own cost on this side to fulfill our project goals.
What's it to you if we applied for and received a grant for the design? Why complain if your tax dollars are being spent here? Your SOEC had huge grants to contribute to construction
Casino Development Assistance Compensation (DAC) program - $40
million over 13 years
Provincial Major Regional Sports Facility Grant – $9.7 million
City Casino Legacy Fund and other reserve funds - $7.2 million
and you're complaining about the Government of Canada contributing $500,000 to support the bridge's engineering and design? Wow talk about perspective!
That's not even the whole cost. Have you seen the budget for this and who is contributing dollars to this? Who do you think provided all the development hours for this? At who's cost? And don't say the taxpayer, because INAC doesn't permit for spending in this area.
Our community is working hard at economic development despite the sniveling of those who are inconvenienced by a traffic light and the others who seem to think that we just waited for a handout.
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Dawnland
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by Dawnland »

I realize you are also talking about the further $2 million contributed for construction.
I would like to point out, it is still a far cry from the $57 million hand-out for the SOEC.
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fluffy
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by fluffy »

Tony wrote:Goodness knows that Tim Horton's and Starbucks will probably make an appearance, but only if there's other tenants.


That's a big question in my mind too, the timing of this project. The current economic climate isn't exactly conducive to new ventures at the moment, with most established business doing their best to maintain some sort of status quo. It will be interesting to see who has stepped up to the plate in the way of actually signing a lease. Something big and new and different in the way of anchor tenants would certainly be a huge draw, and not just another competitor looking for a share of an already thin market.
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by Tony »

Dawnland - I don't think it's fair to compare SOEC to the bridge. SOEC had an end in site. The building itself was the end. As of right now there has been no announcements of what is going on the other side of the bridge. Maybe if there was a press release or something to say "We have signed contracts with......." people would back off. I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but is there an anchor tenant that has signed a deal? Fluffy's right, the economy is still a little soft and a lot of major players are still playing it cool. There is talk of Lowes coming to the valley, but probably will end up in Kelowna. Costco is always a suggestion, but have they signed anything? I'm pretty sure that Home Depot still has brakes on any expansion right now.

I think the general public is slightly skeptical and will be until there's an announcement.
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by mrmagoo »

twobits wrote:Access to those lands has always been available.
....
The current silence speaks volumes and also why private equity has not stepped up to the plate in the past to build this new access you will now have. The next two years will tell us where the bear shytes in the woods.

...
ETA- And food for thought.....had this crossing been in place two yrs ago, would the new prison be on PIB airport lands? I think so. Much to the chagrin of the city with no say in the matter.


Access has not always been available, nor is it available now as far as I can tell. If you think you can use your neighbour's yard as your only access to your home go read up on trespass. Might want to add the legislation governing access roads in too.

Private equity doesn't tend to build bridges, or hadn't you noticed? It is ludicrous to expect Home Depot to fund a multi-million dollar bridge. Commercial tax revenues and development cost charges do pay for infrastructure over time, but bridges are funded and owned by governments.

Anyone who believes there is any "food for thought" in the proposition that a prison would be sited front and center across from a tourist beach and next to an airport at the entrance to town is might want to reconsider what kind of crap they are swallowing. It would never have been approved as a site by the Province.

I do agree with the concerns about who will lease these lands. In the long-term I have no doubt that there will be development there, but I do not believe that this is going to be an easy go in the shorter-term. I find the recent loss of Petcetera, Target, Mexx, Roots, Sony and other retailers a bit troubling. Makes me wonder about the future of retail in the internet age.
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by rustled »

Is it shortsighted to focus on tenants at this point? We know that eventually, that property will be developed (just as the OIB industrial park will eventually be developed). Right now, there are quite a few people earning money to put food on their tables because of the bridge project. At some point, people will earn money putting in the rest of the supporting infrastructure. And then folk will be employed building the buildings.

We came off a heady boom a few years ago, with quite an economic "bust" and our economy is still regrouping. This type of project reminds me of the road-building projects which kept people employed years ago. We're building a bridge while there isn't a huge demand for labour. My guess is, building the bridge while we're still in a bit of a slump actually helps with the cost of building it, whereas waiting can only cost us more once demand for labour and materials goes back up.

As long as what we're building is a sensible investment in what we will need in the future, I have no need to know exactly what that future will look like, or exactly when it will happen.
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Dawnland
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by Dawnland »

If Penticton Indian Band were to set itself apart from other new development hubs in this region, would it do something that has already been done before? How tired is the whole big box/dollarstore model? Has anyone in these threads visited Uptown Mall (Victoria)or Park Royal (West Vancouver)recently? Now if you want to encourage pedestrian traffic, that's the way to do it. Retailers who were once following the Big Box model are now transitioning to more of a boutique framework incorporating technology into the shopping experience.
Osoyoos Indian Band has Area 27 being built right now with exorbitant membership fees. There is no upscale retail locations that provide an exclusive service to the valley. People from Kelowna would be coming here to shop. There is no Tiffany's Jewelers, Apple Store, or Jaguar Dealership anywhere else around. Why not have a technology research company move here? Or how about resort style retail and entertainment?
If one business was announced as an 'anchor' then people would assume that the whole development would be a specific model or style. When this may not be the case at all.
Did you read the Castanet article regarding Max Picton's expansion of the Barefoot area from this morning?
This is development that is an entirely new style for our region, maximizing our resources and offering a unique experience. It's about time that someone offers an economic evolution for the region.
Either way, there's always going to be those people who will pick one thing and beat it to death in these forums. There's a bridge, there will be development and minor inconveniences along the way.
ToddT
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by ToddT »

I think you can count on a big hotel blocking most of the sightlines of Skaha Lake in the next decade. I don't think it is avoidable.
smoky500
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Re: Green Avenue

Post by smoky500 »

I know who will not be a tenant TARGET!!:)

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