Green Avenue

[Daspoot]

Personally I like the indications that PIB leadership is looking to the future instead of dwelling on the past like some former band councils. That bodes well for things on both sides of the channel.

Here-here! they have the relaxed regulations to do things that can't be otherwise done. If they take advantage of that and work constructively with the city they could make a real contribution to the valley!

[twobits]

I wish people would quit brining up the electrical rates increases as a deterrant for business in Penticton, the rates just went up EVERYWHERE!

You clearly don't understand that the city charges Industrial and Commercial properties up to 40% more than a residential user. And when we are talking about Industrial users, electrical is a huge input cost. Running high horsepower machinery is very expensive. Refrigeration and freezer equipment use gobs of power. A store like Safeway will have a monthly power bill north of 30k in the winter and 50k in the summer.
40% less if you set up shop outside of city boundaries is 20k/month in savings. That is why the City of Penticton's electrical rate structure is a deterrent to commercial or industrial investment when Fortis rates are only a stones throw away. And also outside of Penticton's taxation capture area BTW.

[twobits]

I doubt there has ever been some sort of non-competitive clause in regards to zoning, Business and markets change all the time, some of those changes are very tough to compete with. Often the owner needs to roll with the punches, when a door closes, a window opens.

You just don't get it. Zoning bylaws are intended to provide order rather than willy nilly development. In this respect they are non compete clauses because they identify what areas, and how much area, can be developed in a certain way.
The classic example, and one that gives developers a bad name, is the practice of buying an old home on a large residential zoned lot in a neighbourhood and putting in an application for a ten story condo. The obvious reason for doing so is that this lot purchase is far cheaper than paying for the already appropriately zoned lot for a ten story condo. There is your non compete aspect of zoning regulations.......the price premium for the already appropriately zoned land.
Further, to your owner needs to roll with the punches....window closes.....window opens.....tell that to the homeowner that purchased his/her home with the intention of it being a home for the next 20 or 30 yrs and they don't want to live in the sun shadow of a tower. Your "window open" is that their property might be more valuable because a precedent has been set next door, but has it really if we ignore zoning and let the developer pick up another property somewhere else in a different neighbourhood completely bypassing the increased value the damaged homeowner may have realized?
I am a free market capitalist but even I understand the need for rules and consistent playing field. That is the part that appears to elude you. And if you can't see the connect to the Green Ave bridge and this discussion, I can't help you. I say cheers to the PIB in developing their lands...long overdue. I just have to ask why it doesn't happen on the merit of it's own business case but rather requires multi millions of taxpayer dollars. And then comes in with a lower competitive cost structure than the taxpayers who paid for it can enjoy? This is just going to be an effed up repeat of Westbank and you think it's a good thing?

[Daspoot]

Yup, and I philosophically disagree with almost everything else you wrote too. Development will always continue, roll with the punches or get buried, everybody has options. This whole economic system is built on growth, like it or not that means things will change. Wild, untamed land becomes Vacant lots become industrial, commercial, residential, parks etc. Low density single family dwellings on large lots close to amenities get subdivided, amended to medium density, amended to high density and so on. Until we start having a consistent shrinking population in general, don't expect it to ever go the other way. And yes, that brings with it all sorts of unpleasantness and unfortunate consequences.

So you see I get it all too well, and I get that in many cases some people get the short end of the stick, but my supporting this venture and wishing them the best isn't the problem.

Everybody gets a say in zoning amendments, both at the council meetings and in who you vote for to make the decision, this doesn't mean the decisions are always going to go your way, they certainly don't always go the developers, or my way either.

You can vote for your council, you can vote with your wallet, and you can vote with your feet. If enough feel the same way it will make a difference, if enough don't feel the same way, then you're on the outside looking in.

Might this whole thing turn into urban and commercial sprawl and be bad for the town? Possibly, but the PIB have just as much right to screw it up as any other developer anywhere else in the valley, but they just might pull it off too.

I wish them the best, and will vote in the elections, with my wallet and with my feet in needed.

[Tony]

I'm just curious - that's all. The bridge is being built, but they don't have a successful bidder yet....

“We have a tender out and the bridge is going to be built this year,” he said. “This will be the start of a huge economic development.

That's from Chief Kruger

And they have no tenants yet for the property -

We are working with the owners of the locatee lands across the channel to develop that property. It’s accessible and easy to work, and the development will enhance the look of the river channel.

Also from the Chief.

Isn't that a little like buying tires for a car you don't own? You have no idea if you're even going to get the car.

Personally, I think this is way to premature. They've been working on this development for at least 5 years, and still haven't landed a core tenant.

[XT225]

Hey, if you somehow convinced the Feds to build you a multi-million dollar bridge; even if it was to nowhere, would you not take the gift? I doubt that non-native owners could ever convince the Govt to do that for them, however. There could be a major tenant waiting in the weeds; nobody seems to know or want to share that information. I'm not against any development there, especially if someone were to build a nice hotel there (sadly lacking in the Skaha Lake area) but lets hope that they don't lure businesses that are presently located in Penticton over there just to save on taxes. Penticton can't afford to lose any more tax base.

[mrmagoo]

Bid process comes with timelines. I'm not sure what your point is with stating "but they don't have a successful bidder yet". My understanding is that there are many bidding on this project.

I have no idea if there are tenants lined up, but I don't really care either. It is not my money on the line. My view is that without that bridge the land is never going to be developed. With it, it will. I'm not going to lease land without access or a firm timeline for it. It is great land with great exposure - won't sit forever once the bridge is built.

I agree that it would be a shame if existing Penticton businesses relocated, but hopefully we will see some new developments and businesses there. Relocation is very expensive. I've heard a rumour about Costco. I think that would really impact some of the local existing businesses, but a lot of Penticton drives up to shop in Kelowna's Costco already.

[XT225]

Bid process comes with timelines. I'm not sure what your point is with stating "but they don't have a successful bidder yet". My understanding is that there are many bidding on this project.

I have no idea if there are tenants lined up, but I don't really care either. It is not my money on the line. My view is that without that bridge the land is never going to be developed. With it, it will. I'm not going to lease land without access or a firm timeline for it. It is great land with great exposure - won't sit forever once the bridge is built.

I agree that it would be a shame if existing Penticton businesses relocated, but hopefully we will see some new developments and businesses there. Relocation is very expensive. I've heard a rumour about Costco. I think that would really impact some of the local existing businesses, but a lot of Penticton drives up to shop in Kelowna's Costco already.

I guess you must not pay Federal Taxes then? If you do, then it sure the heck IS your money that's building that bridge.

[Tony]

Bid process comes with timelines. I'm not sure what your point is with stating "but they don't have a successful bidder yet". My understanding is that there are many bidding on this project.

I have no idea if there are tenants lined up, but I don't really care either. Sin My view is that without that bridge the land is never going to be developed. With it, it will. I'm not going to lease land without access or a firm timeline for it. It is great land with great exposure - won't sit forever once the bridge is built.

I agree that it would be a shame if existing Penticton businesses relocated, but hopefully we will see some new developments and businesses there. Relocation is very expensive. I've heard a rumour about Costco. I think that would really impact some of the local existing businesses, but a lot of Penticton drives up to shop in Kelowna's Costco already.

There may be many quoting on it, but there isn't a successful bidder - as in they don't know who is going to build it and how much it's going to cost, but they are still disrupting the Parkway for now.

Since it's being paid for with taxpayers money, I believe it is part of your money.

And a traffic light on the Channel Parkway - what a mess that will cause!

Don't get me wrong - I wish them every success, but I think they're putting the cart before the horse. They have the authority to build the bridge, that should be sufficient to get an anchor tenant and they could build the whole thing at the same time. Would make way more sense. What happens if it's 5 years before they get a tenant? Then we have a bridge to nowhere....

[Giants Head]

This tender has closed. Emil Anderson Construction was the successfull bider. There is a very tight timeline on this project due to fish windows that will limit the dates that the contractor can work near or in the Channel. This was a private contract so there was no public opening of the tenders from the different contractors. There will be work on this bridge starting immediatly.

[Tony]

Good to know. In the article it said a contractor hadn't been chosen yet. Not quite up to date I guess....

[fluffy]

[I am a free market capitalist but even I understand the need for rules and consistent playing field.

Twobits, your socialist underwear is showing. :) Isn't exploiting a competitive advantage one of the mainstays of doing business in a capitalist environment? The PIB is coming out of their economic dark ages in a big way recently and I'm all for it. Rather than criticise them for making an attractive business offer maybe it's time the City reassessed their strategy (or lack thereof) for presenting a climate that welcomes more than just retirees into Penticton? I admit I have some reservations about the potential scenery change along the parkway, replacing grazing cattle with Ronald McDonald wouldn't be my first choice for decor but if what we are after is economic growth then I can settle for having to drive for a few minutes to get my fix of country scenery.

Just as a point of interest I take it that the Agricultural Land Reserve does not extend onto PIB land ?

[XT225]

Twobits, your socialist underwear is showing. :) Isn't exploiting a competitive advantage one of the mainstays of doing business in a capitalist environment? The PIB is coming out of their economic dark ages in a big way recently and I'm all for it. Rather than criticise them for making an attractive business offer maybe it's time the City reassessed their strategy (or lack thereof) for presenting a climate that welcomes more than just retirees into Penticton? I admit I have some reservations about the potential scenery change along the parkway, replacing grazing cattle with Ronald McDonald wouldn't be my first choice for decor but if what we are after is economic growth then I can settle for having to drive for a few minutes to get my fix of country scenery.

Just as a point of interest I take it that the Agricultural Land Reserve does not extend onto PIB land ?

Isn't this land across the channel owned by ONE Locatee? Not sure then how the PIB in general will benefit nor how they have any say over what goes on there. Much like Boonstock; I believe the one locatee owner pretty much called the shots of what goes on, on his land. ALR has zero control on Indian Land.

[fluffy]

So we're building a bridge for the benefit of one land owner? Somehow I think it has to reach farther than that.

[XT225]

So we're building a bridge for the benefit of one land owner? Somehow I think it has to reach farther than that.

Sorry Fluff...my mistake. Its actually EIGHT locatees that own the land.

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/news/arti ... f6878.html