Green Avenue

[Daspoot]

Why do we have to resent it when people make money? I get being jealous, but the resent of wealth is an ugly Canadian habit. It's so petty.

[fluffy]

Thanks for that link XT, some relevant background info there. The bridge is not just some Federal charity project, there are a lot of players here with money on the table, the landowners included, and apparently some history going back to the original construction of the channel.

[Daspoot]

Thanks for that link XT, some relevant background info there. The bridge is not just some Federal charity project, there are a lot of players here with money on the table, the landowners included, and apparently some history going back to the original construction of the channel.

Exactly.

I think a more valid concern would be the practice of building roads that bypass town centers, then building commercial areas up to service the people using the new bypass. This leads to commercial sprawl and in some cases can effectively kill old commercial areas. It ends up being strip malls on a highway, but that doesn't apply 100% to what's happening here.

Business owners need to be cognizant of this when it happens and either move or change how they service their markets so they don't end up with a business meant to service people passing through in a spot that people don't pass by anymore.

Penticton is constrained by lakes on 2 sides and mountains on the other 2. All that vacant PIB land is getting more and more valuable every minute.

[theseeker]

Being out of town for the last 3 months I have been reading a lot of the comments on this matter, I for one would encourage development on First Nations Land [PIB] or any other property that would bring progress to the South Okanagan, but also being kept a watchful eye over by concerned individuals. A old saying I heard is "The way we are today, is the choices we made in the past, if we want to change the way we are, we have to change are choices"

[twobits]

Thanks for that link XT, some relevant background info there. The bridge is not just some Federal charity project, there are a lot of players here with money on the table, the landowners included, and apparently some history going back to the original construction of the channel.

Awww Fluff, I think your underwear have been pulled over your eyes :).

This bridge is an absolute charity case. If there are so many players with money involved here, why are they not paying for the damn bridge? The landowners (locatee's) have zero skin in the game that I can see or has been made public.

I can guarantee you that the "development company xyz" has said that they are interested in developing the land but only if you can get the Feds to kick in a few million. Then they let the Fn's go at the Fed's with the understanding that when you secure that, we'll be there for ya.
Think about this for a moment. If that land was privately owned non native land.......do you think any development company would secure 5 million in Federal funding to create access for the development of 140 acres of land? I think you know the answer to that.
Bottom line is that these lands are not developable based on their own business case merits or the developers would be doing it themselves.
So what are we talking about here? Reparations for past wrongs? Then when do the reparations finally end?
Looks like a different bowl of fish soup to me.

[mrmagoo]

I guess you must not pay Federal Taxes then? If you do, then it sure the heck IS your money that's building that bridge.

Total BS/alarmist response IMO. Have you even researched the sources of financing? If you had you would realize it IS NOT some random allotment of taxpayer's money but the allocation of previously-budgeted federal funds (which could have gone to another band in another area bringing NO benefit to the City of Penticton - thank you Penticton Indian Band for getting this) due to FNs in BC, PLUS the band's money, PLUS the landholders money and maybe even money from a lessor (not sure about that one).

[Daspoot]

And there is very clear reporting on more skin in the game than just Fed. funds. This beef is starting to look more and more like uninformed racial bias.

[fluffy]

This beef is starting to look more and more like uninformed racial bias.

I don't know if that's a fair assessment, but there was a lot of bad blood between the PIB and City from past band governments. Confrontation and sabre-rattling were the standard practices for too long. It's nice to see the new council getting more mainstream in their perspective, if you look at what the same approach has done for bands like Osoyoos it's hard to deny the benefits.

[driveangry]

I don't know if that's a fair assessment, but there was a lot of bad blood between the PIB and City from past band governments. Confrontation and sabre-rattling were the standard practices for too long. It's nice to see the new council getting more mainstream in their perspective, if you look at what the same approach has done for bands like Osoyoos it's hard to deny the benefits.

So you are saying it was PIB that caused all the bad blood in the past ??? Just asking. I wasn't around then and that's not what I've heard.

[Daspoot]

This beef is starting to look more and more like uninformed racial bias.

I don't know if that's a fair assessment, but there was a lot of bad blood between the PIB and City from past band governments. Confrontation and sabre-rattling were the standard practices for too long. It's nice to see the new council getting more mainstream in their perspective, if you look at what the same approach has done for bands like Osoyoos it's hard to deny the benefits.

I base that comment on this:

So what are we talking about here? Reparations for past wrongs? Then when do the reparations finally end?

My experience has been that people who cite "reparations and when do they end" usually have no clue about treaties, reparations, rights, or even how the annexing of the nation happened in the first place.

[fluffy]

So you are saying it was PIB that caused all the bad blood in the past ???

Not entirely, no, but Stewart Phillip's go-to position was always one of defiance, outright militant in some cases. People have long memories for things like that. It was a legacy that haunted PIB councils long after his departure, he was a loose cannon and nobody wanted to do business with them for the longest time. Now that things are changing it's time to put past prejudices to bed and look ahead, not back.

[twobits]

And there is very clear reporting on more skin in the game than just Fed. funds. This beef is starting to look more and more like uninformed racial bias.

Hardly, but nice try with defaulting to the race card. While I may not be FN, my family has has endured enough discrimination from the Anglo Saxon's to fill our work boots and yours. Try again.

[Daspoot]

Actually most of what I've read here is based on where the bridge is going, not the bridge itself, so it's pretty self-evident where people's problem with it lies.

You can't post

So what are we talking about here? Reparations for past wrongs? Then when do the reparations finally end?

And then say it has nothing to do with a bias based on who owns the property. I'm not saying you're a huge racist or anything like that, but if this bridge was going to the same chunk of land but it was owned by the 8 average-joe Penticton businessmen then this discussion would be very different.

I used to have the perception of First Nations and "hand-outs" etc. until someone who was very familiar with the entire situation and history explained the nuances of it all to me, and I felt like an uninformed racist jerk when I finally has something close to the whole story.

[twobits]

I'm not saying you're a huge racist or anything like that, but if this bridge was going to the same chunk of land but it was owned by the 8 average-joe Penticton businessmen then this discussion would be very different.

Yes you are right. If it was owned by 8 joe average Penticton businessmen, the discussion would be very different. Different in that there would be no Gov't funding and the development would have to proceed on it's own damn merits. It is quite clear here that Costco, Landmark Cinemas, Home Depot et al were not interested in paying for the cost of a bridge. Landmark Cinemas in fact got tired of waiting for the Fed subsidy and made another investment. People complain about corporate wefare and yet when it is on FN land, it is somehow progressive investment. Sorry, but I will always call a spade when I see it.

[XT225]

Yes you are right. If it was owned by 8 joe average Penticton businessmen, the discussion would be very different. Different in that there would be no Gov't funding and the development would have to proceed on it's own damn merits. It is quite clear here that Costco, Landmark Cinemas, Home Depot et al were not interested in paying for the cost of a bridge. Landmark Cinemas in fact got tired of waiting for the Fed subsidy and made another investment. People complain about corporate wefare and yet when it is on FN land, it is somehow progressive investment. Sorry, but I will always call a spade when I see it.

Bingo! You nailed it twobits. Not racist at all. Just the plain truth.