Giving away city parkland to private interest

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madmudder
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Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by madmudder »

Will anyone be going to Monday's July 20 5:00pm protest in front of city hall?
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fluffy
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by fluffy »

Not me.

For me the two big driving forces behind this protest are the loss of a baseball diamond near the T&C centre in favour of a high end hotel complex, and the new plans for the Skaha Marina property. I see both of these proposals as a significant shot in the arm for tourism, added entertainment venues for locals, and added revenue for city coffers because nobody is "giving away" anything here. In short, the new proposals fall under "best use" for the land in question in my opinion. Those who are decrying the loss of "green space" are ignoring the fact that one, most of the "green space" at the Skaha Marina is currently concrete and asphalt, and two, the change of use of one baseball field (among many) to a high end tourist facility amounts to an improvement, year-round utility for the many, not just part-time utility for a few.

Cliff Martin can go get stuffed. His views are short-sighted and do not serve the majority he claims to represent. He is the perfect poster boy for flavour-of-the-month CAVE (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) people. He reminds me of the old adage that "Those who know the least, always tend to know it the loudest."
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DblDwn11
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by DblDwn11 »

madmudder wrote:Will anyone be going to Monday's July 20 5:00pm protest in front of city hall?


The title to this post is mis-leading, as is the public outrage. The land in question has been leased for many years. The current plan is to slightly expand the lease to include the new amenities, mainly the water park. The city is not giving away parkland, it is leasing it (at market value!) to a company that will enhance what is now basically a few cinder block buidings and a lot of asphalt.

Most of what you will read in letters to the editor and on-line is mis-guided and not based on fact. I would encourage people to retrieve their own information rather then depending on the loudest protesters.

Go to this link to get started on your own research (as I did) and please get informed with facts.

http://www.penticton.ca/EN/meta/city-news/news-archives/2015_Archives/faq-about-skaha-marina-waterpark.html
jccamp95
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by jccamp95 »

I want to plan a protest to protest the protesters! LOL
XT225
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by XT225 »

fluffy wrote:Not me.

Cliff Martin can go get stuffed. His views are short-sighted and do not serve the majority he claims to represent. He is the perfect poster boy for flavour-of-the-month CAVE (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) people. He reminds me of the old adage that "Those who know the least, always tend to know it the loudest."


I do not agree with you re Mr. Martin. If it wasn't for folks like him, things like the Okn. Lakeshore project would've likely taken on a completely different look and many parking spaces would have been lost. The title of this thread could refer to the loss of the ball diamond or Skaha parkland. In the case of the hotel project, if NO people had protested this, its very unlikely that the document that was found in Kamloops would have been located and it would have been railroaded through. Just who it was that brought it up is anyone's guess but I doubt it was anyone on council. If a referendum now has to be held, its going to prove interesting. Since more people appear to be voicing their concerns AGAINST the Skaha waterslides (not the Marina change), it wouldn't hurt to include that on the ballot. Few people seem to be against the actual building changes at the Marina and making that into a restaurant. In my opinion, the ONLY way that a waterslide could make money is for the operator to LEASE (not own) the land. Two other ones have failed in this city before and both owned the extremely valuable property. I am not saying that I am for or against the waterslides; I would never use them personally. I would like to see a year round restaurant established on site of the Marina building; not just a glorified hamburger joint thats only open a few months per year. If done correctly, it would be a draw to the area; much like the Hooded Merganser or Parrot are to Okanagan Lake.
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fluffy
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by fluffy »

XT225 wrote: In the case of the hotel project, if NO people had protested this, its very unlikely that the document that was found in Kamloops would have been located...


What document ? Sorry, I work out of town and spend three quarters of my time out of the loop.
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XT225
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by XT225 »

fluffy wrote:What document ? Sorry, I work out of town and spend three quarters of my time out of the loop.


I would quote a Castanet article on it, but so far I cannot fine one. This is what appeared in the Western and it was also in the Herald. http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/316051301.html

ETA: glad you are back working again.
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by Static »

The water park will be bankrupt within a few years and a condo or hotel will be built in its place. Penticton has had two water slides in the past. Guess what happened to them?
XT225
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

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Static wrote:The water park will be bankrupt within a few years and a condo or hotel will be built in its place. Penticton has had two water slides in the past. Guess what happened to them?


I wouldn't necessarily agree on that. The key here is the operator of the waterslide NOT having to purchase the Tres expensive land; only leasing it. A huge difference. Pretty sure that is the reason the other slides failed; the land owned by them was too valuable to leave unused with no revenue for 8 months of the year. I'm staying neutral on the slides but I would like to see a decent restaurant established at the Marina and open year round. That could be a good attraction.
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

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I agree a restaurant would be nice. But the demand for water slides will not be there. Tourism is a fraction of what is was. Look to the lower mainland with over 2m people, there is only two water parks -Tsuwassan and Cultus Lake. There were a few in Kelowna as well that all went belly up. Unless it is something exceptional, the demand will not be there.

If Penticton wants to attract tourism, let the party come back to town. Invite the young crowd to come and enjoy the beach and bars and have the time of their life. They will continue to return year-over-year as young professionals and then with their own family. Ask any long-term hotel owner/business owner when their busiest years were and they will say it was between the seventies and the nineties when the locals accepted the young crowd with open arms. There were more motels, campgrounds, bars and restaurants. Downtown was alive past 10PM.

Penticton no longer knows what tourism is.

Does anyone know what the yearly lease is?
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by DblDwn11 »

Static wrote:Does anyone know what the yearly lease is?


"The marina and waterslide areas will be leased to Trio Marine Group, and that lease requires Trio to pay market rates. For example, in 2019 (first year of full operations), the lease for the marina, restaurant and waterpark would work out to $89,931, plus taxes of $65,293. They are also required to pay revenue sharing from all sales..." - Source - penticton.ca
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by twobits »

I would be interested to know the name of the legal entity leasing this land. Is it a numbered company division of Trio Marine Group and are there personal guarantee's from the principle shareholders?
As XT has mentioned, the primary reason for previous waterslide failures was just higher value use for the real estate. Leasing City land takes that skin out of the equation. That can be a good thing in that there is no pressure for a higher value use such as a condo tower, but it can also be a bad thing in that if revenue generated fails to cover operational costs, and the lessor is just a shell, it would not be so difficult for them to walk away and leave the City to operate the asset. That is presuming the City would even seize rather than sue for the value of the lease. They cannot do both. If the lessor is a shell with no hope of recovering on a judgment on the lease, they would have no choice but to seize this business. Then the decision would have to be made of liquidate or operate at a loss like the swimming pool does.
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fluffy
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by fluffy »

XT225 wrote:This is what appeared in the Western and it was also in the Herald. http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/316051301.html


Interesting. That would certainly complicate any thoughts of a major hotel (and casino ?) development there, especaily in light of the high level of noise being generated by the "no" side.

Still, the El Rancho property right across the street is a prime location for the same sort of project.
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XT225
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by XT225 »

fluffy wrote:Interesting. That would certainly complicate any thoughts of a major hotel (and casino ?) development there, especaily in light of the high level of noise being generated by the "no" side.

Still, the El Rancho property right across the street is a prime location for the same sort of project.


I think that the El Rancho property (which IS for sale) would be ideal location. Right across from the Convention Centre and would keep anyone happy who didn't wish to see the city lease/sell public parkland. Its a win win situation as far as I'm concerned. ETA: I wonder if leasing the city land would not give the operator an unfair advantage over other hoteliers who had to BUY their land. Just saying.
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Re: Giving away city parkland to private interest

Post by Darkre »

The biggest misconception going around town is that the other water slides failed. I actually knew the operations manager from one of the water slides and it made a decent amount of money every year. In fact the owner of that water slide regrets tearing it down. He fell victim to the smooth talkers that convinced him of the quick payday he would receive by developing the property. When things got tough these people abandoned him and he was stuck with a very expensive piece of dirt that has no revenue stream.

Penticton needs something like this. The attractions for families have disappeared in the South Okanagan. With projects like this maybe families will start coming back here to vacation. My worry is that they aren't going to build a big enough water slide park.

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