"Let's push them back and take back our town"

[bob vernon]

Lot's of complaining. Lots of rants about what we see every day downtown.
Not many solutions, other than "they need a kick in the *bleep*". What does "take back our city" really mean? Put them on a bus to Lumby? A suggestion from a mental health worker for a safe injection site was met with eyes rolling and NIMBY glances around the room.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/22 ... k-our-city

It sounds like an emerging right-wing vehicle to elect a mayor and council who will promise to clean it up, only to realize the problem is way, way larger than they could ever imagine. I see ball caps with "Make Vernon Great Again" on the front. This isn't just a Vernon problem.

[Mama]

Seriously, what does a "safe injection site" do. I really think people just spew little phrases that they have heard thinking that it makes them a good person.
All this Love and understanding isnt doing anything but making the situation worse! Its time to get real.
We need Mental health facilities. Yes they have been horrible in the past, so learn from that, police THAT. But get these poor people off the streets in a safe, warm, secure building with the medical care they need.
Drug addicts, get them off the street in a safe warm treatment center. If you dont test clean, you dont leave. And you dont get any assistance!! Your assistance is in that building, not money in your hand.

Now that leaves the real homeless families. THAT can be dealt with now because these struggling families can be clearly seen now.
Clean our community the same way we clean our homes. Sort it out! A place for everything and everything in its place.
And for all of you that want to spew your little PC phrases, awesome. Post your addresses, and we can direct the homeless to your yard.

[sab30]

Ya cause those safe injection sites are working really well. Sure would love one of those trailers parked in my neighborhood with junkies roaming around. Oh the free needles is another great idea. Now we have a massive amount of used free needles laying around Vernon. Harm reduction? What a joke. Funny that alcoholics and gamblers are not allowed to use the same excuses for their disease. Should we provide free booze and cash for them cause it would be insensitive not to? Quit....or face the consequences of your disease just like they do.

"Take back the town" Let me simplify for you. The past 4 years has been a bunch of apathetic city leaders and special interest groups who have done NOTHING and allowed to get where we are today. If the taxpayers were not funding the city there would be no more city, so yes we have a say. A say for a city without the scenes of drugs and sex that my young daughter has to witness, a park that a safe to walk in, a town where the taxpayers voices are heard. NYC had one of the worst problems in the USA relating to homelessness and crime (yes they are perfectly linked) and the mayor decided to do something. Special interest groups went beserk, liberals lost their minds but gues what...it worked. New York City is now one of the safest cities in the USA per capita. This unpopluar tough approach is exactly what is needed for the city of Vernon.

Hopefully some additional candidates will be available in this years civic election. Those that listen to the taxpayers.

[JayByrd]

Ya cause those safe injection sites are working really well. Sure would love one of those trailers parked in my neighborhood with junkies roaming around. Oh the free needles is another great idea. Now we have a massive amount of used free needles laying around Vernon. Harm reduction? What a joke. Funny that alcoholics and gamblers are not allowed to use the same excuses for their disease. Should we provide free booze and cash for them cause it would be insensitive not to? Quit....or face the consequences of your disease just like they do.

Harm reduction is meant to keep people alive and reduce suffering. It's not meant to make things better for you. If you disagree with resources being directed that way, you're entitled to. But it's mandate is to help people be safer so it's not failing in that.

As for "facing the consequences", those addicted to street drugs are facing them. They're not the ones complaining or demanding change, you are.

If you want to improve things, don't wait for a civic leader to do it for you. Do it yourself. Help restore hope to someone who's not trying to do better because they've given up on themselves. Help someone get sober. Get to know someone who's suffering. If you believe your role is just to pay taxes and complain, you will continue doing so until the day you die.

[Because_They_Lie]

Ya cause those safe injection sites are working really well. Sure would love one of those trailers parked in my neighborhood with junkies roaming around. Oh the free needles is another great idea. Now we have a massive amount of used free needles laying around Vernon. Harm reduction? What a joke. Funny that alcoholics and gamblers are not allowed to use the same excuses for their disease. Should we provide free booze and cash for them cause it would be insensitive not to? Quit....or face the consequences of your disease just like they do.

"Take back the town" Let me simplify for you. The past 4 years has been a bunch of apathetic city leaders and special interest groups who have done NOTHING and allowed to get where we are today. If the taxpayers were not funding the city there would be no more city, so yes we have a say. A say for a city without the scenes of drugs and sex that my young daughter has to witness, a park that a safe to walk in, a town where the taxpayers voices are heard. NYC had one of the worst problems in the USA relating to homelessness and crime (yes they are perfectly linked) and the mayor decided to do something. Special interest groups went beserk, liberals lost their minds but gues what...it worked. New York City is now one of the safest cities in the USA per capita. This unpopluar tough approach is exactly what is needed for the city of Vernon.

Hopefully some additional candidates will be available in this years civic election. Those that listen to the taxpayers.

Alcohol has an established public house. Gambling has an established public house. Those who enjoy partaking of these activities have been enabled to do so. Those who are addicted to these activities are enabled to continue their addiction due to the public houses offering said substances and activities. That there is a "place" to go to partake of such activities makes it acceptable to you. So, perhaps - rather than suggesting that partakers of drugs be removed from the city limits or jailed, locked down - why not supply - like the other establishments - a public house for drug use? it works well enough for the other two types of addicts, you do not hear complaints of these individuals out on the streets urinating and compromising businesses do you?

Those who live on the street are no less important than those who do not. They must be treated with respect and solutions found. Public house for drug activity seems to be the best option, considering it works well enough for alcoholics and gamblers. (even though drunks urinate wherever they choose and casinos are used as money laundering fronts.)

Homeless are no less deserving of respect and humane treatment than any of you.

[Because_They_Lie]

Ya cause those safe injection sites are working really well. Sure would love one of those trailers parked in my neighborhood with junkies roaming around. Oh the free needles is another great idea. Now we have a massive amount of used free needles laying around Vernon. Harm reduction? What a joke. Funny that alcoholics and gamblers are not allowed to use the same excuses for their disease. Should we provide free booze and cash for them cause it would be insensitive not to? Quit....or face the consequences of your disease just like they do.

Harm reduction is meant to keep people alive and reduce suffering. It's not meant to make things better for you. If you disagree with resources being directed that way, you're entitled to. But it's mandate is to help people be safer so it's not failing in that.

As for "facing the consequences", those addicted to street drugs are facing them. They're not the ones complaining or demanding change, you are.

If you want to improve things, don't wait for a civic leader to do it for you. Do it yourself. Help restore hope to someone who's not trying to do better because they've given up on themselves. Help someone get sober. Get to know someone who's suffering. If you believe your role is just to pay taxes and complain, you will continue doing so until the day you die.

Beautiful and right. :)

[sab30]

Yes very well said....only problem is none of that has worked. Help someone get sober? Okay, detain them and make their sentence mandatory to receive treatment at a facility. Hows that? Community is happy and we are helping them get treatment and therefor sober.

The utopic view sounds wonderful and empathetic but under that belief the problem has spiraled out of control. Time for a different approach.

[JayByrd]

Yes very well said....only problem is none of that has worked. Help someone get sober? Okay, detain them and make their sentence mandatory to receive treatment at a facility. Hows that? Community is happy and we are helping them get treatment and therefor sober.

The utopic view sounds wonderful and empathetic but under that belief the problem has spiraled out of control. Time for a different approach.

I never said I had a solution to the problem. Those who work in addictions and social services know there IS no solution. So they work to ease suffering, keep people safe, and hopefully, help one person at a time.

What do you think "treatment in a facility" entails? Do you think it's a cure? Like you take a class and then you're all better? You can lock someone up but you can't force them to do the work of recovery. Besides, rehabilitation is rarely able to address the issues that cause people to make bad choices. This is why you'll often hear of people who've been through the process multiple times; they detoxed, did rehab, and were sober for months or weeks or days before they fell back into their old patter. Some people are simply too broken to fix. Many of them end up at the very bottom of society. They're the ones living on the streets, causing problems.

[Rider59]

Homeless are no less deserving of respect and humane treatment than any of you.

Really, respect is earned. I see no reason to respect most of these low life petty criminal scum. If they want better treatment, how about they treat society better?

*removed* No wonder why the lefties are laughed at so much.

[zoo]

Here's an easy solution:
To the south is Kelowna, the failure of our solutions and the powers with in society today of "Politically correct", patting ourselves on the back thinking we are so soft, kind, understanding etc, have allowed the establishment of "the best damn drug city" with in a city.
Vernon, put pressure on your camps, shut down your drug centers, take your drug RV off the road, chase the suppliers out of town and hand out brochures showing how great kelowna is to take drugs.
We have a great street that is right beside a beautiful family park with swimming, new washrooms, shelters, drug RV's, tons of crime opportunities. Where else can this environment be so easy.
Remember, this is only a solution to Vernon's drug issue, not a compliant about kelowna's drug city, as we openly acknowledge we built, offered, welcomed the best little drug city in america to happen.

[bob vernon]

Two solutions: one appeals to the extreme right wing. The other appeals to the leftists.

One: because of the extreme addictivity of the new drugs like carfentanil and fentanil, and even heroin and cocaine, and the life destroying effects of these drugs, I think we should have the death penalty for those supplying and trafficking these drugs. Get caught with large amounts and you're facing death. We read about the Bacon's and the UN gangs and how they fight over their areas in which to traffic. They shouldn't be allowed to exist in our society.

Two: those already addicted should be supplied and given safe injections sites. And we should re-open psychiatric institutions to house these people and attempt to cure them. The mental hospitals were largely closed in the past few decades as part of the "government shrinking" that took place. It helped fund the tax cuts for the wealthy and made the 1% richer than ever. There will always be a small number of people who can't even look after the basics in their lives. Accept it and house them in places like Tranquille that once existed in Kamloops and salvaged some of them. It's better than turning them out onto the streets.

It'll raise your taxes and those of the 1%ers. Or we can flounder along the way we are.

[zoo]

totally agree, there needs to be a 0 tolerance for any involvement with importing, distributing, drugs.
Death penalty or life in prison. Focus all enforcement at this area. Actually enforce harsh, real penalties.
Then offer all homeless, drug users wanting to get free of that life a safe, helpful place to go. This cannot be done with in the drug cities we have created. Its impossible and the people believing it can happen need a dose of reality.
Offer the opportunity, take them to a place where we will gladly invest, support and help those who truley want it.
Then take away the offerings within the drug cities we have created.

[Because_They_Lie]

By the use of reason we are able to realize that not all homeless human beings are addicts.

If you have issue with the behavior of addicts, address these issues independently of homelessness - because it is not the same thing.

[Because_They_Lie]

totally agree, there needs to be a 0 tolerance for any involvement with importing, distributing, drugs.
Death penalty or life in prison. Focus all enforcement at this area. Actually enforce harsh, real penalties.
Then offer all homeless, drug users wanting to get free of that life a safe, helpful place to go. This cannot be done with in the drug cities we have created. Its impossible and the people believing it can happen need a dose of reality.
Offer the opportunity, take them to a place where we will gladly invest, support and help those who truley want it.
Then take away the offerings within the drug cities we have created.

...and how do drugs get into our communities?

...and who allows drugs in our communities?

...do you also include prescription drugs, opiates?

...what about the big pharmaceutical companies, are they the good-guys?

... with all the drug busts you'd think by now that the drug issues would be cleaned up - but I doubt that is the plan.

...the government will be providing free heroin shortly - so, why do you continue to blame the homeless?

...use some intelligence and some reason in your arguments, and get to the real source of your trouble.

[liisgo]

[/quote]
What are these strange questions trying to accomplish, just asking, Most of these are pretty obvious?
And who is blaming the homeless, seems most are agreeing to helping the homeless?
I agree with a few of the recent post's, The thoughts, solutions we have been using have done nothing but fail so a completely different approach is needed.

...and how do drugs get into our communities?

...and who allows drugs in our communities?

...do you also include prescription drugs, opiates?

...what about the big pharmaceutical companies, are they the good-guys?

... with all the drug busts you'd think by now that the drug issues would be cleaned up - but I doubt that is the plan.

...the government will be providing free heroin shortly - so, why do you continue to blame the homeless?

...use some intelligence and some reason in your arguments, and get to the real source of your trouble.[/quote]