Wagons for the homeless????

Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby OKkayak » Jul 29th, 2018, 11:03 am

bob vernon wrote:You're assuming that the street people are capable of working. Some aren't. And these jobs that you're talking about will be at minimum wage for how many hours per week? Enough to put a roof over their heads? And eat?

Actually, my comment was more tongue in cheek, hence the popcorn and laughing emoji.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby mexi cali » Jul 29th, 2018, 12:38 pm

To Verum; I worked with the marginalized/homeless/addicts for a number of years in Kelowna. My statement is not my personal belief. It comes from the mouths of those who live this every day. many of the homeless had homes and mortgages and jobs but walked away from it all because it was more than they could handle.

Not all feel this way absolutely bit more than many might think.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby mexi cali » Jul 29th, 2018, 12:41 pm

lensbaby wrote:I wrote - " which is find those that are down and out and kick them in the teeth!"

Mexi Cali rewrote it to this line. "The kicking in the teeth is the taking back of the shopping carts which are not nor were ever not, theirs."

The first one is my line. The second one is the way you twisted it to make a point that never existed. - you can see above what I actually said.. Kindly don't put your words into my mouth. I never mentioned it being OK to steal shopping carts. And the city is not planning to take back the shopping carts - they have neither the inclination or the authority.


Did you just tattle on me? Pish posh. If you read my quote, it quoted you. Directly. I know what you're saying. And you know I know. You think that taking possession of property that belongs to others is "kicking them in the teeth".

"stop thy bleeding o' my beating heart for it is clouding my ability to reason". Quoth anonymous. Ok, it was me.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby lensbaby » Jul 29th, 2018, 3:58 pm

mexi cali wrote:
lensbaby wrote:I wrote - " which is find those that are down and out and kick them in the teeth!"

Mexi Cali rewrote it to this line. "The kicking in the teeth is the taking back of the shopping carts which are not nor were ever not, theirs."

The first one is my line. The second one is the way you twisted it to make a point that never existed. - you can see above what I actually said.. Kindly don't put your words into my mouth. I never mentioned it being OK to steal shopping carts. And the city is not planning to take back the shopping carts - they have neither the inclination or the authority.


Did you just tattle on me? Pish posh. If you read my quote, it quoted you. Directly. I know what you're saying. And you know I know. You think that taking possession of property that belongs to others is "kicking them in the teeth".

"stop thy bleeding o' my beating heart for it is clouding my ability to reason". Quoth anonymous. Ok, it was me.



I did not and do not condone the theft of carts. Kindly don't attempt to interpret what I write - you are obviously not very good at it!
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby Verum » Jul 29th, 2018, 4:18 pm

mexi cali wrote:To Verum; I worked with the marginalized/homeless/addicts for a number of years in Kelowna. My statement is not my personal belief. It comes from the mouths of those who live this every day. many of the homeless had homes and mortgages and jobs but walked away from it all because it was more than they could handle.

Not all feel this way absolutely bit more than many might think.

I hate to be a pedant about it but this is a somewhat different thing to that which you claimed:
many of these people don't want our help

Just because someone dropped out at one point doesn't mean that they don't want help, possibly even to get back to something like what they had had before. That said, maybe some don't want help, but suggesting that it is many would not fit with my experience (mostly outside Kelowna) nor what I gather to be the experience of those I have discussed this topic with. Maybe Kelowna's homeless population is particularly unusual in that way. But and I'm being facetious here, try an experiment where you offer $1000 to each and every homeless person you meet and see how many say no to your offer of help.

On a more serious note, many do want help and do want better lives. Maybe they don't have the skills or ability to handle a life with mortgage and demanding job, but that's not the only option beyond homelessness and it doesn't have to be the end goal. Homelessness is a complex problem and there is no single solution for everyone, but and this is crucial, homelessness costs our economy and society dearly through reduced productivity, reduced tax revenue, increased healthcare costs, quality of life costs etc. Not addressing it productively, or worse, being actively hostile to homeless people is hugely wasteful and needlessly cruel.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby bob vernon » Jul 31st, 2018, 7:28 am

Glad to see that the Gofunding goal of $1000 was exceeded. But the more the better. Giving them wagons is a great idea.

I guess there were two groups of people on the anti-shopping cart side. Those who just wanted the stores to have their carts back and those who wanted to kick the poor while they were down. And the wagon funding thing will also get us past the municipal election.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby lensbaby » Jul 31st, 2018, 8:58 pm

bob vernon wrote:Glad to see that the Gofunding goal of $1000 was exceeded. But the more the better. Giving them wagons is a great idea.

I guess there were two groups of people on the anti-shopping cart side. Those who just wanted the stores to have their carts back and those who wanted to kick the poor while they were down. And the wagon funding thing will also get us past the municipal election.


I don't believe for one moment that anyone cared whether or not the stores got their carts back. But I definitely agree that there were two groups of people here - and in the Central Okanagan forums. Those that have compassion and believe in giving a hand up, and those that believe all homeless are criminal junkies who should be forced into jobs, forced on to buses, forced into treatment, forced to do pretty much anything so long as they don't rock the boat of the selfish individuals that these threads tend to reveal.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby larryr » Aug 8th, 2018, 5:37 am

All this will create is unused wagons laying in ditches, parking lots and in alleys. Why bother with giving the homeless more junk to throw away and leave behind. I think this is a stupid endeavor to try to help the homeless haul more junk and drugs around.

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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby bob vernon » Aug 8th, 2018, 6:20 am

Let's just rip the carts away from them and seize their belongings and leave them in the street with nothing. That way they'll be more likely to resort to theft, breaking and entering, and purse snatching. What a solution!
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby watchkat » Aug 8th, 2018, 2:17 pm

Just a couple of comments.
The wagon idea is out of kindness, but also innocence I think. Looking at the wagon it would never carry all the belongings that can be stuffed into a shopping cart. Unfortunately there is no thought about winter/rain, etc and no mention of providing even a hank of poly rope and 4/ x 6 tarp which would be less thatn $5.00 total from a dollar store.

Have a good look at many of the carts the homeless are using and you will probably notice that many are zeller's and some extra foods old carts..........before the days of coin opeation.
As someone that worked for many years in downtown Westbank, I can tell you that those stores used to have someone contracted to round them up......not from the homeless, but from shoppers that used them to get to the bus or home with their groceries and then abandoned them in the alleys behind the Peto Canada, Old Westbank Market and over toward the complex behind the Overwaitea store.
We would phone and they would thank us and soon someone in a pickup truck would load them.......back then they said they were worth about $600. each to replace.
Then along came the pay carts and Zellers at least for one basically told the homeless they could have them as they were getting new carts.

Just to clear up where some of those carts came from and were not "stolen".

This is the latest "funded" project from college engineers.
https://news.ok.ubc.ca/2018/05/16/ubcs- ... e-streets/
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby alanjh595 » Aug 8th, 2018, 2:49 pm

watchkat wrote:Just a couple of comments.
The wagon idea is out of kindness, but also innocence I think. Looking at the wagon it would never carry all the belongings that can be stuffed into a shopping cart. Unfortunately there is no thought about winter/rain, etc and no mention of providing even a hank of poly rope and 4/ x 6 tarp which would be less thatn $5.00 total from a dollar store.

What do they use now? They are being offered a basic model FORD and there are complaints that it doesn't come with AM/FM and a USB port ??

Have a good look at many of the carts the homeless are using and you will probably notice that many are zeller's and some extra foods old carts..........before the days of coin opeation.

So, just because they have the company name of a non-existing store, that makes them worthless ? The fact remains, the property does NOT belong to them.

As someone that worked for many years in downtown Westbank, I can tell you that those stores used to have someone contracted to round them up......not from the homeless, but from shoppers that used them to get to the bus or home with their groceries and then abandoned them in the alleys behind the Peto Canada, Old Westbank Market and over toward the complex behind the Overwaitea store.

That is when people were just inconsiderate in not returning the carts, nowadays, it is theft of carts for personal possession and use. Times have changed. That is why stores now have to resort to locking up the carts.

We would phone and they would thank us and soon someone in a pickup truck would load them.......back then they said they were worth about $600. each to replace.

They are actually worth $250 each today, I asked the store manager today after reading your post. They are the smaller ones and all metal.


Then along came the pay carts and Zellers at least for one basically told the homeless they could have them as they were getting new carts.

Now, there is further evidence as to why Zellers went bankrupt. Zellers just gave away their carts? Considering that Target moved in and had the exact same company colours, I don't think so.

Just to clear up where some of those carts came from and were not "stolen".

No, of course not, "they were found". Where did they come from? AND did the person in possession pay for it and have the right to title ? Gee, officer, I just found this car on the side of the road, I didn't know it was stolen.

This is the latest "funded" project from college engineers.

Those carts have been available at hardware stores for many years, the greenhouse that I go to has exactly the same thing in green. It took college engineers to come up with this idea? I am glad I will not live long enough for them to graduate and design a bridge that I might have to drive over.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby Sparki55 » Aug 8th, 2018, 3:00 pm

lensbaby wrote:
bob vernon wrote:Glad to see that the Gofunding goal of $1000 was exceeded. But the more the better. Giving them wagons is a great idea.

I guess there were two groups of people on the anti-shopping cart side. Those who just wanted the stores to have their carts back and those who wanted to kick the poor while they were down. And the wagon funding thing will also get us past the municipal election.


I don't believe for one moment that anyone cared whether or not the stores got their carts back. But I definitely agree that there were two groups of people here - and in the Central Okanagan forums. Those that have compassion and believe in giving a hand up, and those that believe all homeless are criminal junkies who should be forced into jobs, forced on to buses, forced into treatment, forced to do pretty much anything so long as they don't rock the boat of the selfish individuals that these threads tend to reveal.


Oh boo hoo. Keep supporting them then, I won't. The ones I deal with everyday don't give a :cuss: about anyone they affect around them and certainly don't want my help as they have demonstrated. I'm talking about the 20-30 wonderful people who populate kirschner rd.

What if their numbers continue to grow as free help becomes easier? First they are given wagons, then free carts, then free drugs, then free food, then free healthcare, then free motorhomes because the carts are inhumane. Jeez at the motorhome stage I'd probably call it quits and just go live in one of those.

I don't ever see these ones you all talk about that are "down on their luck and trying to come back to society". If people like this do exist I expect them to be helped to the fullest as at least they have some initiative. Most of the homeless I am used to seeing have been this way for 5+ years with no signs of changing. If I lost it all, and I mean everything and was on the street with the clothes I am wearing and $0.02 the first thing I'd do is look for a social service to buy food, then save up money to be able to take showers at a local pool and then work on getting social assistance to find a job. McDonalds or a gas station like job would be my first targets to be able to afford to rent a room somewhere. If people cannot manage this then we need to reopen metal homes and put these people in them, at least they will have better care than a :cuss: wagon on the streets. :swear: :swear:

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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby jimmy4321 » Aug 8th, 2018, 3:15 pm

I really don't care what people spend their private cash and time on but grocery carts all over town should never have been allowed to be the norm.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby Bsuds » Aug 8th, 2018, 3:25 pm

jimmy4321 wrote:I really don't care what people spend their private cash and time on but grocery carts all over town should never have been allowed to be the norm.


Well now we are going to have red wagons instead.
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Re: Wagons for the homeless????

Postby jimmy4321 » Aug 8th, 2018, 3:28 pm

Bsuds wrote:
Well now we are going to have red wagons instead.


I know eh.

Well at least they'll own them and if the city could grow a pair they'd crack down on the ones who STEAL carts.
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