ODS in Vernon

tabubil
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ODS in Vernon

Post by tabubil »

It seems that the IHA (Interior Health Authority) is going to give us the people of Vernon an ODS (Over Dose Site) and this was supposed to be discussed at a public meeting but it seems that the business community wants it and the hospital.
If that happens I might have to start going to Kelowna Hospital because I do not want to fight through addicts going to the ODS.
The IHA is telling us that this will save many lives. No it is not, all this will is prolong a death and make more painful on all concerned. No on can tell me that giving addicts a place to shoot up is going to save their lives, you are assisting in killing them.
I would like to see all the free kits given out stopped.. It is time to start them on hard facts you use, you get caught jail or mandatory recovery (cold turkey). All the bleeding hearts get ready yes let a few die that may save many more than ODS assistance.
I have lost many friends to drugs, I have also assisted several to quit them also, I have also seen what it does to family
I too have addictions and have beaten them
Do not forget that the addict is the one who put the drugs in their body and continues to do so.
Country plough boy
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by Country plough boy »

Me too. I cant even count how many have died. Harm promotion is insulting to those who wish for a better tomorrow
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Iamme
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by Iamme »

I wonder how many will make the effort to walk up the hill to shoot up :135:
Theother
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by Theother »

They waste money like the junkies waste their lives.
TvT Textiles
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by TvT Textiles »

Before I share my input I want to make it clear that my comments are from personal observations.

The comment on driving to KGH for emergency care triggered this reply. KGH is *bleep*. Most locals in Kelowna drive to either Penticton or Vernon for Emergency care.

Vernon has had drug problems since the 80s. In late 2009 the provincial government, with 2010 Olympic funding, opened up a methadone clinic in Vernon. The intenton was to 'clean up' Vancouver by offering better treatment and care for addicts. Funding for Vernon's massive hospital upgrade was included in the deal. Treatment centers in Vancouver handed out 1 way bus tickets freely.

I moved to Vernon from Regina to attend aviation school. I witness the flood of homeless in Sept/Oct 2009.

I own property in Kelowna now, our crime is as well unreal.
Pentiction is now handing out fines to homeless for sleeping on the street... Prison for profit....

Turning our backs to problems does not work. Pointing fingers and bitching is fruitless.

The opioid crisis was created by pharmaceutical companies rewarding medical practitioners prescribing their products. (thankfully it is now illegal for drugmakers to 'tip' doctors) Over prescribing oxycontin and then taking it away has lead to this epidemic.

The Afghan invasion was a rush to control the poppy fields as opiates are the base of american pain medication. China responded with synthetics. (Car fentanyl is not new - watch Jurassic Park)

Safe injection sites offer counseling and do save lives. Awareness and communication fundamental to prevention.

Luc
TylerM4
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by TylerM4 »

I just want to clarify.

Interior Health is mandated by the province to put a site in Vernon. They have no choice in the matter. Yes, IHA is the one putting the site in. But if you're angry with that decision don't blame IHA. Blame the provincial government. Don't complain about it to IHA, complain to your local MLA.

IHA does have control over the location and design. They're leaning heavy on Vernon City Council to recommend a location. If you want to influence the location, the best group to appeal to would be city council. City council will slough off the responsibility and say "it's IHA's decision not ours" because they don't want to face the public backlash, but IHA is going to put a lot of emphasis on their wishes/recommendations. IHA are experts in delivery of care - but they are not experts at knowing where in the community that care would be best provided. The city should be the authority on that topic and IHA will be heavily influenced by the city's recommendations on the topic/location.
tabubil
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by tabubil »

to TvT Textiles:
You make a good point but let us be real you made a commitment to getting help, you had the fortitude and guts to stick with the plan that you made and look at what YOU have accomplished.
NO ONE forces addicts to take the drugs they put in their body, they did the first time and they do it every time after that. I know that many cannot stop. so they say maybe they are just do not want to stop enough.
Having ODS sites is assisting the addicts eventual death you just do not charge these people or governments.
pieinthei
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by pieinthei »

you won't escape the addicts by going to Kelowna.
bob vernon
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by bob vernon »

Do you mean that it's as bad there as it is here? I heard at the town hall meeting from several people who used the phrase "Dirty Vernon" and that Vernon was the worst place on earth. Does this mean that the problem is larger than something that our local council can solve? Is it bigger than what the province can handle? How about our national gumment?
ScottSA
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by ScottSA »

To be clear, IHA is in control of this, and not only does Vernon City Council not have any say in it, but IHA has not asked Council for a recommendation as to where it should be, nor would they accept one. In spite of this, I am against the OPS entirely, but because Council has no say, I and several Councillors in conjunction with the DVA and the Vernon Chamber of Commerce have argued that A) it should NOT be in the downtown area; and B) the best place to locate it so it keeps low key is at the hospital, where all the medical facilities are available.

It is unlikely that IHA will follow our wishes. It has put this out to tender. Hopefully the bidders will not bid suggest a downtown location.

I am not for an OPS because it does nothing to solve the problem, and instead actually acts as an enabling agent. In the Kamloops location, IHA is passing out free hamburgers to entice addicts to come there, essentially shutting down a nearby old folks home because the residents are afraid to use their own courtyard now. For any lives it may save - and the metric by which IHA arrives at that claim is specious, to be generous - the social harm it creates is quite simply worse. Look at Calgary, Kelowna, Kamloops, Nanaimo...the list goes on. We have to have a sea change in the way we think about this addiction crisis. The province has to pivot away from a sole focus on harm reduction and adopt something similar to the Portuguese model, where treatment is the primary focus.
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Iamme
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by Iamme »

ScottSA wrote:To be clear, IHA is in control of this, and not only does Vernon City Council not have any say in it, but IHA has not asked Council for a recommendation as to where it should be, nor would they accept one. In spite of this, I am against the OPS entirely, but because Council has no say, I and several Councillors in conjunction with the DVA and the Vernon Chamber of Commerce have argued that A) it should NOT be in the downtown area; and B) the best place to locate it so it keeps low key is at the hospital, where all the medical facilities are available.

It is unlikely that IHA will follow our wishes. It has put this out to tender. Hopefully the bidders will not bid suggest a downtown location.

I am not for an OPS because it does nothing to solve the problem, and instead actually acts as an enabling agent. In the Kamloops location, IHA is passing out free hamburgers to entice addicts to come there, essentially shutting down a nearby old folks home because the residents are afraid to use their own courtyard now. For any lives it may save - and the metric by which IHA arrives at that claim is specious, to be generous - the social harm it creates is quite simply worse. Look at Calgary, Kelowna, Kamloops, Nanaimo...the list goes on. We have to have a sea change in the way we think about this addiction crisis. The province has to pivot away from a sole focus on harm reduction and adopt something similar to the Portuguese model, where treatment is the primary focus.


Thank you Scott. You’re one of a very few council members who are actually speaking out for me and many other’s concerns in our community as it keeps going from bad to worse. The treatment model is the way to go and would prefer my tax dollars try this method because the current ‘harm reduction’ is not working obviously yet those in power at IHA or the Ministry says it does.
Country plough boy
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by Country plough boy »

ScottSA wrote:To be clear, IHA is in control of this, and not only does Vernon City Council not have any say in it, but IHA has not asked Council for a recommendation as to where it should be, nor would they accept one. In spite of this, I am against the OPS entirely, but because Council has no say, I and several Councillors in conjunction with the DVA and the Vernon Chamber of Commerce have argued that A) it should NOT be in the downtown area; and B) the best place to locate it so it keeps low key is at the hospital, where all the medical facilities are available.

It is unlikely that IHA will follow our wishes. It has put this out to tender. Hopefully the bidders will not bid suggest a downtown location.

I am not for an OPS because it does nothing to solve the problem, and instead actually acts as an enabling agent. In the Kamloops location, IHA is passing out free hamburgers to entice addicts to come there, essentially shutting down a nearby old folks home because the residents are afraid to use their own courtyard now. For any lives it may save - and the metric by which IHA arrives at that claim is specious, to be generous - the social harm it creates is quite simply worse. Look at Calgary, Kelowna, Kamloops, Nanaimo...the list goes on. We have to have a sea change in the way we think about this addiction crisis. The province has to pivot away from a sole focus on harm reduction and adopt something similar to the Portuguese model, where treatment is the primary focus.



Out to lunch. Portugal model. U wanna pay for the free dope. Be my guest
bob vernon
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by bob vernon »

Setting up an injection site, either downtown or up the hill, still leaves the supply of drugs in the hands of criminals. And they have ZERO incentive to reduce the number of users. They want to create more addicts who will buy their products. Any move to solve the "problems" has to include both assisting the addicts AND stopping the flow of drugs into the community.

So we have to make the importation, manufacture, and sale of the drugs not worthwhile. How many of these low level dealers on the street have previous convictions? Probably a lot of them. We have to make the penalties far more severe. Longer jail time may or may not work. But how about corporal punishment? Corporal punishment means lashings. Yes, with a whip. And if the drug dealing continues, why not try capital punishment? That means the death penalty. And there has to be a willingness to bargain with low level dealers to testify against those at the top of the pyramid.

Catch and release works with fish. It allows them to continue to multiply. Ditto with drug dealers. Making injections safe is fine. Even offering counseling is fine. But if you let the supply of drugs to continue, expect this problem to go on and on.
dle
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by dle »

tabubil wrote:to TvT Textiles:
You make a good point but let us be real you made a commitment to getting help, you had the fortitude and guts to stick with the plan that you made and look at what YOU have accomplished.
NO ONE forces addicts to take the drugs they put in their body, they did the first time and they do it every time after that. I know that many cannot stop. so they say maybe they are just do not want to stop enough.
Having ODS sites is assisting the addicts eventual death you just do not charge these people or governments.



Did TvTTextiles do a post elsewhere that suggests they were having, or were in recovery from, substance abuse problems personally? I am not getting that from the post on this thread but I will go back and re-read it in case I missed something. They did say their opinion was based on "personal observations" but I really don't think they meant "personal experience" but I could be wrong there.

I agree some are so far gone they cannot stop - on their own or left to their own devices to find help etc. However I really do believe that if they were PLACED (mandatory) into proper long-term care the outcome could be much different for a lot of them. Yes, there will be some who will be using addicts every day forever til their last breaths but NOTHING we can do will save them unfortunately. Safe injections sites might save them once or twice but eventually they will die of their addictive habit - one way or the other.
dle
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Re: ODS in Vernon

Post by dle »

ScottSA wrote:To be clear, IHA is in control of this, and not only does Vernon City Council not have any say in it, but IHA has not asked Council for a recommendation as to where it should be, nor would they accept one. In spite of this, I am against the OPS entirely, but because Council has no say, I and several Councillors in conjunction with the DVA and the Vernon Chamber of Commerce have argued that A) it should NOT be in the downtown area; and B) the best place to locate it so it keeps low key is at the hospital, where all the medical facilities are available.

It is unlikely that IHA will follow our wishes. It has put this out to tender. Hopefully the bidders will not bid suggest a downtown location.

I am not for an OPS because it does nothing to solve the problem, and instead actually acts as an enabling agent. In the Kamloops location, IHA is passing out free hamburgers to entice addicts to come there, essentially shutting down a nearby old folks home because the residents are afraid to use their own courtyard now. For any lives it may save - and the metric by which IHA arrives at that claim is specious, to be generous - the social harm it creates is quite simply worse. Look at Calgary, Kelowna, Kamloops, Nanaimo...the list goes on. We have to have a sea change in the way we think about this addiction crisis. The province has to pivot away from a sole focus on harm reduction and adopt something similar to the Portuguese model, where treatment is the primary focus.




I haven't learned about the Portuguese model but I know I also agree with treatment being essential, not enabling. Stay the course and stick to your convictions. I also don't believe that non-drug users and business owners should have to suffer the effects and fall-out of the lifestyle of the drug users whether they like it or not including shelters in the downtown core. It is refreshing to hear the views of a councillor who who doesn't follow the so-called "party-line" of safe injection sites taking over the downtown business area, because "that's where the services are that the addicts need" and "it makes them feel more included" being the be-all and end-all of options. Thanks for having the guts to say so.

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