Two tiered electric

dontrump
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by dontrump »

The result is my bill is over 1000 dollars in the coldest winter months



I have a 3400 sq ft house with geo thermo systems My power bill for 12 months was $1387
I do keep the heat low for 5 winter months as we are away I leave it at 62F
but when I hear these horror storys here at 600 700 900 1000 Per month its tragic
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pmaria
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by pmaria »

dontrump wrote:
The result is my bill is over 1000 dollars in the coldest winter months


My good gawd....what are you heating and what type of heat are you using? Where are you located? There is something wrong with that number.


Thats what I'm thinking. I pay around $200 every 2 months for a 1400sqft town home with gas heating. The gas is around $40 during the coldest months.[/quote]


I have never heard of anyone in the north ok only getting a $40 PM winter heat bill ? I say that's impossible unless u must keep the thermostat at like 44 F hell my HW,bbq and stove in summer is like $35[/quote]

I'm in Kelowna, but my Jan 2019 gas bill was $38, and Feb 2019 was $51. I keep the thermostat at around 20C and its comfortable. This is a townhouse though, with units on both sides, so it doesn't lose much heat.
mjdecock
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by mjdecock »

I should clarify when I say 1000 dollars a Fortis bill that means 500 dollars a month in the coldest months. They produce a bill every two months.

Fortis says my bill indicates that I am heat effecient compared to my neighbors.
I have a heat pump.
The only heating option is electricity. There is no natural gas option.
The majority of my bill is at a 50% surplus because of the two tiered system.
These are the coldest two months.
I keep my heat on average at 18.8
dontrump
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by dontrump »

yes I can see a small condo where you have a unit on each side where would have a low nat gas bill but $35 is still pretty hard to believe when u take into account my oct bill was 33$ just for hot water and some stove top usage ;; ovens electric
and theres just two of us
Trīewth
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by Trīewth »

mjdecock wrote:I do appreciate the couple of cents they lowered the top tier portion of my bill this year. I guess the transition at this rate will take a couple of hundred years.


From the Fortis website:

For residential customers, the phase-in period will include gradually reducing the higher tier rate and increasing the lower tier rate until a single, flat rate is established by 2023.
TylerM4
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by TylerM4 »

mjdecock wrote:I should clarify when I say 1000 dollars a Fortis bill that means 500 dollars a month in the coldest months. They produce a bill every two months.

Fortis says my bill indicates that I am heat effecient compared to my neighbors.
I have a heat pump.
The only heating option is electricity. There is no natural gas option.
The majority of my bill is at a 50% surplus because of the two tiered system.
These are the coldest two months.
I keep my heat on average at 18.8


If you have a heat pump and are paying $500/month for an average sized home (under 3000sqft) and only heating to 65* then something is very wrong.
I recommend you get an HVAC specialist to visit your home and assess.
common_sense_guy
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by common_sense_guy »

The real tragedy here is the amount we all pay for our electricity. I haven't seen them build a new dam for a long time so that infrastructures been here forever and paid for Long Ago by our parents tax dollars. And why the government would sell major natural resource commodity to a private for-profit company is beyond me. It should be BC and canadian-owned, any natural resource and should be provided to BC and Canadians at a fair rate. Our commodity ,we shouldn't be getting screwed on the price of it. Same goes for lumber and water and our own oil. Take care of Canadians first and then whatever's leftover sell for profit. That's how Canada should work. All the money that private companies make on our natural resources should have never left ownership of Canadians. Instead of natural resource profits going to private companies, all that money should have been going towards our tax base so we wouldn't be getting gouged on our taxes everywhere else.
You don't learn when you are talking. You can only learn while you're listening.
dontrump
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by dontrump »


If you have a heat pump and are paying $500/month for an average sized home (under 3000sqft) and only heating to 65* then something is very wrong.
I recommend you get an HVAC specialist to visit your home and assess.


I disagree heat pumps are NOT super efficient in the north Ok once the outside air is at or below 32F
the electric side of it runs full bore ;; don't make the mistake of comparing Geo thermo systems
with straight heat pumps
Last edited by dontrump on Jan 15th, 2020, 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TylerM4
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by TylerM4 »

dontrump wrote:
I disagree heat pumps are NOT super inefficient in the north Ok once the outside air is at or below 32F
the electric side of it runs full bore ;; don't make the mistake of comparing Geo thermo systems
with straight heat pumps



I'm well aware thanks. Typical air source heat pump transfers to backup heat source at around -6*C Anytime it's warmer than -6* out the heatpump is more efficient. Not sure where the OP is, but average temp in Vernon for month of December is right around 0*

I stand by my statement. Heat pump + temp set at 65* should not cost you $500 during the winter months for an average home. I'm sure many other heat pump owners can share what their normal bills are.
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alanjh595
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by alanjh595 »

My gas and electric bills combined, are less than $175 /mth. during the coldest months, for my 2000sq/ft 1 level house. (I would have to go back into my files to get the exact number)
That is only for the 2 coldest months of the year.
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dontrump
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by dontrump »

I'm well aware thanks. Typical air source heat pump transfers to backup heat source at around -6*C Anytime it's warmer than -6* out the heatpump is more efficient. Not sure where the OP is, but average temp in Vernon for month of December is right around 0*

I stand by my statement. Heat pump + temp set at 65* should not cost you $500 during the winter months for an average home. I'm sure many other heat pump owners can share what their normal bills are.


well I think your wrong I believe it 32F (0C) then power cuts in I have the High dollar Geo thermo in ground system and my electric cuts in way before -6C
here is the other deal maybe the OP heat pump is under sized for his heat requirements
dontrump
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by dontrump »

I said 32F but its only 37 Quote: If outside temperature is below 37 F, heat pumps need to use electric resistance head coils inside the furnace to keep house warm

the newest latest ones may be a little more efficient iam sure the OP is anolder one
TylerM4
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by TylerM4 »

dontrump wrote:
I said 32F but its only 37 Quote: If outside temperature is below 37 F, heat pumps need to use electric resistance head coils inside the furnace to keep house warm

the newest latest ones may be a little more efficient iam sure the OP is anolder one


Pay attention to that wording you quoted. It says 37* is when it starts using the backup source - not when the pump itself stops being efficient. It's also a very generalized statement which is likely not true for most Canadian homes that have HVAC systems optimized for colder weather.

Here's an article that explains it better. https://asm-air.com/heat-pump/what-temp ... effective/ Keep in mind that this article is describing heat pumps in general all over north america. When it comes to heat pumps installed in Canada, units are selected with better ability to operate in cold weather and with higher capacity so we'd be closer to the lower end of the scale (25*F)

Also keep in mind that it's possible to purchase heat pumps designed for cold climates. Nordic for example build heat pumps that will operate as low -22*C https://www.nordicghp.com/2015/12/air-s ... -climates/ I agree tho - likely the OP doesn't have a heat pump like this.

I think you're confusing when the aux heat comes on vs efficiency crossover point (where it's more efficient to use aux only) As the temps outside get colder, a heat pump is unable to provide as much heat. In common installations the aux heat will start to be used when temps outside are right around freezing. But it's not until -6* (on average) when the heat pump switches over to only using aux heat. As a result, anytime you're above -6* a heatpump is more efficient than electric resistance even if electric resistance is being used to help provide some of that heat. Here's a great article that explains this topic: https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/366 ... s-Capacity
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dontrump
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by dontrump »

we can argue all day long and iam not confusing anything;I never said nor suggested the heat pump simply switches to full electric heat but the point is and its obvious by his $500 heat bill that its a older heat pump and they start using the electric heat elements around 37F ;; its just not a good system in the ok valley when we get cold winter weather
I have studied geo thermo systems for a couple years which are considered far superior to a straight heat pump
and iam here to tell you there still not as efficient as a 98% nat gas furnace and they cost well north of 100% more to buy and install and there a very complicated system of which I would never choose but the house came with the system
Now that being said on the AC side I find the geo thermo system very efficient compared to a standard AC system
dontrump
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Re: Two tiered electric

Post by dontrump »

3400 sq ft house set at 62 degree heat full geo thermo system while iam away and the bill for last 35 days
is $109 which includes the fridge and deep freeze etc

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