What is with Vernon council

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james_dean
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by james_dean »

tabubil wrote:I read now that our Mayor and council in their great wisdom want to go ahead with the new recreation centre even though our neighbours do not want to.
What is with this council do they just want to spend all our money and tax everyone out of town.
I think it is time to write to council and tell them to listen to what we want seeing as we employ them. I am writing all council member now and suggest that unless in these economic times you want to spend $90 million on something that will most likely bankrupt the city let them know.
They cannot even get the Cultural centre right after all this time and not telling us all the facts.
Mr Cummings we will not name it after you no matter how much you push and fail to inform us the taxpayers.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/30 ... e-planning


The COVID-19 crisis has had a disproportionate effect on unemployment rates in Canada. The latest numbers from Stats Canada show that youth unemployment rate has soared to a staggering 30%. If approved, a construction project of this size will inject $40 million into the local economy, create thousands of jobs, and revitalize Vernon's downtown core. I believe 2/3 of the project will be reserved for commercial/residential development.

While a tax increase is a possibility, it is NOT the only consequence that can flow from a construction project of this size. Local governments budget for economic development activities using municipal funds, oftentimes receive provincial and federal funds, and have the ability to raise funds privately. The Greater Vernon Cultural Centre project if approved, it is to be funded through a combination of loans ($25 million), grants, fundraisers, and donations.

As far as the "FACTS" are concerned, they're all made publicly available to you - if you bothered to look.

1. http://www.rdno.ca/docs/160407_ToR_GVCP_IAT_FINAL.pdf

2.https://rdno.civicweb.net/document/142468/200422_RPT_GVCC_BusinessPlan.pdf?handle=453761F2B85449A2A6CB8B3917CE4B16

3.http://www.rdno.ca/index.php/services/recreation/greater-vernon-parks-recreation-culture/arts-culture-youth/greater-vernon-cultural-centre

4. http://www.rdno.ca/index.php/services/recreation/greater-vernon-parks-recreation-culture/arts-culture-youth/cultural-plan-implementation
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nicholas p
Posts: 74
Joined: May 1st, 2015, 8:06 am

Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by nicholas p »

james_dean wrote:
tabubil wrote:I read now that our Mayor and council in their great wisdom want to go ahead with the new recreation centre even though our neighbours do not want to.
What is with this council do they just want to spend all our money and tax everyone out of town.
I think it is time to write to council and tell them to listen to what we want seeing as we employ them. I am writing all council member now and suggest that unless in these economic times you want to spend $90 million on something that will most likely bankrupt the city let them know.
They cannot even get the Cultural centre right after all this time and not telling us all the facts.
Mr Cummings we will not name it after you no matter how much you push and fail to inform us the taxpayers.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/30 ... e-planning


The COVID-19 crisis has had a disproportionate effect on unemployment rates in Canada. The latest numbers from Stats Canada show that youth unemployment rate has soared to a staggering 30%. If approved, a construction project of this size will inject $40 million into the local economy, create thousands of jobs, and revitalize Vernon's downtown core. I believe 2/3 of the project will be reserved for commercial/residential development.


While a tax increase is a possibility, it is NOT the only consequence that can flow from a construction project of this size. Local governments budget for economic development activities using municipal funds, oftentimes receive provincial and federal funds, and have the ability to raise funds privately. The Greater Vernon Cultural Centre project if approved, it is to be funded through a combination of loans ($25 million), grants, fundraisers, and donations.

As far as the "FACTS" are concerned, they're all made publicly available to you - if you bothered to look.

1. http://www.rdno.ca/docs/160407_ToR_GVCP_IAT_FINAL.pdf

2.https://rdno.civicweb.net/document/142468/200422_RPT_GVCC_BusinessPlan.pdf?handle=453761F2B85449A2A6CB8B3917CE4B16

3.http://www.rdno.ca/index.php/services/recreation/greater-vernon-parks-recreation-culture/arts-culture-youth/greater-vernon-cultural-centre

4. http://www.rdno.ca/index.php/services/recreation/greater-vernon-parks-recreation-culture/arts-culture-youth/cultural-plan-implementation


No one is against the project,most of them against the timing & way it is financed. You are concerned about youth un employment who can relocate if they find employment in other cities & are getting money from emergency fund & lots of businesses are struggling to get employees as the youth are taking advantage of the money they are getting & dont want to go back but did you think about our senior citizen who are dependent on the pension and their savings who didnt get any extra income from government above that every year increase in tax to support youth .Why can't the project be built under private government partnership & fix a rate per use.
Last edited by ferri on Jul 17th, 2020, 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote (i think)
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james_dean
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by james_dean »

nicholas p wrote: No one is against the project,most of them against the timing & way it is financed. You are concerned about youth un employment who can relocate if they find employment in other cities & are getting money from emergency fund & lots of businesses are struggling to get employees as the youth are taking advantage of the money they are getting & dont want to go back but did you think about our senior citizen who are dependent on the pension and their savings who didnt get any extra income from government above that every year increase in tax to support youth .Why can't the project be built under private government partnership & fix a rate per use.


1. The project cannot be built under a private government partnership because of the 40-million-dollar cost that the project carries. Can you think of another project in this province, of similar purpose and size that was built solely using private funds?

2. Nowadays for young people starting out in life, the cost of housing in this province has become so prohibitively high – that you find many of them delay purchasing their first home or starting a family, not because they don’t want to but because they cannot afford to. Also, think how hard it will be for this generation to save for their own retirement if they can’t even afford to purchase their home or raise a family.

3. You are obviously concerned about the senior citizens who rely on their CPP and their old age security pension to support themselves. However, on a very basic level, both CPP and OAS are supported by young people – who if unemployed are no longer able to contribute to your CPP and OAS.

4. Financial aid from the federal government is not free money. This view that young people are out there to take advantage or cheat the system is backward and flawed. To qualify for CERB or EI, a person youth or otherwise, would have to demonstrate that they lost their job due to COVID, that their work hours were reduced due to COVID, and that they have earned in their previous year a minimum of $5,000 in the last 12 months.

5. For small businesses who are struggling, they can apply for the Canada Emergency Business Account, which provides interest-free loans of up to $40,000 to eligible small businesses and not-for profits. The Federal and provincial governments have also launched the Canada Commercial Rent Assistance program to temporarily reduce rent for qualifying small business tenants. Lastly, the Federal government has developed enhanced programs to help employers avoid layoffs and rehire employees. Qualifying small business can apply for this wage subsidy program which funds up to 75% of their employees’ wages, for up to 3 months, retroactive to March 15, 2020.
dontrump
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by dontrump »

not sure where the last two posters come up with 40$ million because the City them selves have pegged it at $90
so we all know that really means 100 million or more

we keep up this absurd spending and soon your property taxes will be like prince george as there already
GET THIS "60%" higher than vernon is now ;;; My SIL house at 346K assessed value in vernon is $2350 gross tax and her son,s house assessed at $346K in PG is $3700 gross tax so do the math and thats what is going to happen in vernon if u all vote to build a 90-110 million dollar rec center that at MOST will be used by 35% of the Vernon population
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james_dean
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by james_dean »

dontrump wrote:not sure where the last two posters come up with 40$ million because the City them selves have pegged it at $90
so we all know that really means 100 million or more

we keep up this absurd spending and soon your property taxes will be like prince george as there already
GET THIS "60%" higher than vernon is now ;;; My SIL house at 346K assessed value in vernon is $2350 gross tax and her son,s house assessed at $346K in PG is $3700 gross tax so do the math and thats what is going to happen in vernon if u all vote to build a 90-110 million dollar rec center that at MOST will be used by 35% of the Vernon population


The Greater Vernon Cultural Centre project has a project estimate of $40 million (in 2020 dollars), which includes construction, equipment, land and offsite cost. The 40 million tag is just an estimate, and like any other estimate, it is likely to go over budget. Where are you getting this $90 million figure from?

http://www.rdno.ca/index.php/services/recreation/greater-vernon-parks-recreation-culture/arts-culture-youth/greater-vernon-cultural-centre

What is absurd is trying to trying to fear monger people thinking that what happened in PG will happen in Vernon. Instead of comparing PG's residential property tax rates with Vernon - which is not a fair comparison at all given the difference in locations, industries, and budgets - you should compare it with another city in the region of similar size, location, and municipal budget like Penticton.

A quick calculation on your property tax based on the assessment figures that you provided yields an estimate of: $2,014.03
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nicholas p
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by nicholas p »

james_dean wrote:
nicholas p wrote: No one is against the project,most of them against the timing & way it is financed. You are concerned about youth un employment who can relocate if they find employment in other cities & are getting money from emergency fund & lots of businesses are struggling to get employees as the youth are taking advantage of the money they are getting & dont want to go back but did you think about our senior citizen who are dependent on the pension and their savings who didnt get any extra income from government above that every year increase in tax to support youth .Why can't the project be built under private government partnership & fix a rate per use.


1. The project cannot be built under a private government partnership because of the 40-million-dollar cost that the project carries. Can you think of another project in this province, of similar purpose and size that was built solely using private funds?

2. Nowadays for young people starting out in life, the cost of housing in this province has become so prohibitively high – that you find many of them delay purchasing their first home or starting a family, not because they don’t want to but because they cannot afford to. Also, think how hard it will be for this generation to save for their own retirement if they can’t even afford to purchase their home or raise a family.

3. You are obviously concerned about the senior citizens who rely on their CPP and their old age security pension to support themselves. However, on a very basic level, both CPP and OAS are supported by young people – who if unemployed are no longer able to contribute to your CPP and OAS.

4. Financial aid from the federal government is not free money. This view that young people are out there to take advantage or cheat the system is backward and flawed. To qualify for CERB or EI, a person youth or otherwise, would have to demonstrate that they lost their job due to COVID, that their work hours were reduced due to COVID, and that they have earned in their previous year a minimum of $5,000 in the last 12 months.

5. For small businesses who are struggling, they can apply for the Canada Emergency Business Account, which provides interest-free loans of up to $40,000 to eligible small businesses and not-for profits. The Federal and provincial governments have also launched the Canada Commercial Rent Assistance program to temporarily reduce rent for qualifying small business tenants. Lastly, the Federal government has developed enhanced programs to help employers avoid layoffs and rehire employees. Qualifying small business can apply for this wage subsidy program which funds up to 75% of their employees’ wages, for up to 3 months, retroactive to March 15, 2020.


1 If this huge cost project has not been built earlier doesn't mean that future it can't be tried
2 Nowadays for young people starting out in life, the cost of housing in this province has become so prohibitively high – bcoz the kids have been made so lazy that they try to take easy way out by saying less job but in reality their are lots of employment opportunity but needs to work hard& commitment, as just in march Vernon was selected to get some foreign workers as their was shortage of workers below is the link
www.vernon.ca/rnip
3.Just to your info CPP & OAS are not supported by young people that is the returns they are getting for the money they contributed in their young age working hard but in turn our younger generation is enjoying the fruit of their hard work.
4.If it is not Free money
i) "Did they work for it?"
ii) Is it Employment Insurance based on their wages before they were laid out?If so did they try find other employment?
iii) What is rental subsidy?
5.Canada Emergency Business Account pays Loan not grant which has to be returned later & for wage subsidy program All business doesnt qualify their is some requirement to be fulfilled & this program exist from many years and its not new.
nicholas p
Posts: 74
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by nicholas p »

News to me only young people would use a rec centre.


Just read your first statement which contradicts last one .So please confirm who is greater seniors or working age home owners
dontrump
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by dontrump »

yes I used 346K as a value that was 2 years ago;;(my bad) this year it was 406K which makes my point even stronger based on your figures there My Dean
Prince George person pays a total tax bill of $3700 based on a 346K value where as vernon only pays $2014 which is crazy
so PG property taxes are 80% more than Vernon so Keep wanting 90 million dollar up grades etc and we will soon have a tax bill as awful and totally ridiculous as Prince George is now being forced on land owners there

MARK my words the way Vernon is spending money our taxes will soon surpass PG thats a given
common_sense_guy
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by common_sense_guy »

Ingevan22 wrote:Investing in our own community is always a good thing.

Tabubil, have you compared Vernon's property taxes with Saskatoon's lately?

Such a great generalized statement you made. Too bad not everybody is you or thinks like you. Yes investing in your community CAN be a good thing. But not always by any means as you're suggesting.. I wouldn't make such a blanket statement and I would take each separate investment opportunity and judge it on its own individual merits.. not every investment is going to be a good one for the better of the community
You don't learn when you are talking. You can only learn while you're listening.
bob vernon
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by bob vernon »

Compare away at your leisure. Compare BC cities and also other provinces.

https://wowa.ca/taxes/bc-property-tax
NachoManRandySalad
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Joined: Jan 22nd, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by NachoManRandySalad »

This City Council is doing a great job.

Just kidding.
dontrump
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by dontrump »

Several people here disputed my $90 million figures regarding a rec center here is what the city said ;;;

Council supported in principle the conceptual plan on May 25, along with the option to borrow up to $90 million for the project, pending referendum approval.
DetectivePikachu
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by DetectivePikachu »

dontrump wrote:Several people here disputed my $90 million figures regarding a rec center here is what the city said ;;;

Council supported in principle the conceptual plan on May 25, along with the option to borrow up to $90 million for the project, pending referendum approval.




The person who responded to you is talking about the Cultural Centre at $40mm not the rec centre at $90m.
THE OP mentioned both projects, one at $40m one at $90m.
Many posters are just stating "the project" and should be more precise about which one to avoid confusion.



IMO it all depends on how much of this will be paid for by the Feds or Province. IIRC the city was only paying for $25mm of the $40mm Culture centre due to Grants. Thats a good deal for the city and people. They also said that the cost to carry the $25mm will not increase the cities expenses as they pay off the New Hockey Arena just as they start paying for this one.

I have no idea if there are grants for the rec centre, i sure hope so at that price, i think the city does need a new rec centre but $90mm is a lot.
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james_dean
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by james_dean »

DetectivePikachu wrote:
dontrump wrote:Several people here disputed my $90 million figures regarding a rec center here is what the city said ;;;

Council supported in principle the conceptual plan on May 25, along with the option to borrow up to $90 million for the project, pending referendum approval.




The person who responded to you is talking about the Cultural Centre at $40mm not the rec centre at $90m.
THE OP mentioned both projects, one at $40m one at $90m.
Many posters are just stating "the project" and should be more precise about which one to avoid confusion.



IMO it all depends on how much of this will be paid for by the Feds or Province. IIRC the city was only paying for $25mm of the $40mm Culture centre due to Grants. Thats a good deal for the city and people. They also said that the cost to carry the $25mm will not increase the cities expenses as they pay off the New Hockey Arena just as they start paying for this one.

I have no idea if there are grants for the rec centre, i sure hope so at that price, i think the city does need a new rec centre but $90mm is a lot.


My point exactly, and thank you for clarifying the confusion.

I take your point about the request to borrow 90 million dollars, and while there might be a growing community need for a new indoor recreational center, I do not believe that the estimated projections are feasible, unless the city is able to secure additional grants or sponsorship dollars.
Last edited by james_dean on Jul 24th, 2020, 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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nicholas p
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Re: What is with Vernon council

Post by nicholas p »

I agree Vernon need a indoor recreation centre but doesn't mean that it has be built by borrowing . $90 million for construction+running cost +over head + maintainence cost which is paid by Vernon property owners but the facility will be used by neighbouring communities too,instead of borrowing why can't it be built under private government partnership so that cost will be shared & which ever community uses it, will pay for it,will be maintained professionally instead of elected officials,attracting more investors,more advertising etc. If required the city can subsidize the fees to low income persons.

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