O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

bob vernon
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by bob vernon »

CanuckFan wrote:Whoever owns the land has every right to sell it. I don't know where people get off trying to control other's property all the time.

Why would developers care about a historic rangeland? They are a business. It's up to the City to make sure they pay their share, but you can't prevent people from selling their own property.


Of course they can sell the land. Or develop it themselves. But either way, I think we can expect to experience a "Kelowna style" civic election sometime soon. That's one where a slate is elected to a majority of city council and they suddenly approve re-zoning, a reduction in development cost charges, and a sudden need to expand the city's infrastructure, paid for by taxpayers at large. Figure how many houses can fit on that much land. There's a reason for the high value of the land. It's a potential gold mine for a developer, assuming he can get his people elected to council. Retiring boomers from all over Canada want the sun, the golf, the mild winter skiing.

It's good old fashioned Okanagan greed where somebody else pays the bill for the developers. It's been a way of life in Kelowna for decades and expect it in Vernon.
CanuckFan
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by CanuckFan »

Kelowna really has had various levels of govt. aiding lands out of ALR and all sorts of shenanigans for a long time. While Glenmore valley may be a frost pocket, that doesn't mean it wasn't excellent farm land that should not have been traded for houses.
LANDM
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by LANDM »

CanuckFan wrote:Kelowna really has had various levels of govt. aiding lands out of ALR and all sorts of shenanigans for a long time. While Glenmore valley may be a frost pocket, that doesn't mean it wasn't excellent farm land that should not have been traded for houses.

That was a one-time unprecedented event. It is not reality to imply that there has been a constant dribbling of lands out of the ALR here.
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DetectivePikachu
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by DetectivePikachu »

bob vernon wrote:
CanuckFan wrote:Whoever owns the land has every right to sell it. I don't know where people get off trying to control other's property all the time.

Why would developers care about a historic rangeland? They are a business. It's up to the City to make sure they pay their share, but you can't prevent people from selling their own property.


Of course they can sell the land. Or develop it themselves. But either way, I think we can expect to experience a "Kelowna style" civic election sometime soon. That's one where a slate is elected to a majority of city council and they suddenly approve re-zoning, a reduction in development cost charges, and a sudden need to expand the city's infrastructure, paid for by taxpayers at large. Figure how many houses can fit on that much land. There's a reason for the high value of the land. It's a potential gold mine for a developer, assuming he can get his people elected to council. Retiring boomers from all over Canada want the sun, the golf, the mild winter skiing.

It's good old fashioned Okanagan greed where somebody else pays the bill for the developers. It's been a way of life in Kelowna for decades and expect it in Vernon.


High value for the land?

its $12,554 an acre.

Show me another place you can buy land that cheap in city limits in BC.
dontrump
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by dontrump »

LANDM wrote:
CanuckFan wrote:Kelowna really has had various levels of govt. aiding lands out of ALR and all sorts of shenanigans for a long time. While Glenmore valley may be a frost pocket, that doesn't mean it wasn't excellent farm land that should not have been traded for houses.

That was a one-time unprecedented event. It is not reality to imply that there has been a constant dribbling of lands out of the ALR here.


correct in fact that fellow tryed to get 9 acres out right in kelowna 2 months back and was refused and in my opinion it was non farmable from a point of income
stuphoto
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by stuphoto »

I try going there yearly, and was there 2 days ago.
What a beautiful place, with an amazing local history.
It would be a shame to see it ruined be development.

I would love to see the Animal Sanctuary idea happen.
I think it would be a positive addition to the history.
CanuckFan
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by CanuckFan »

People seem to have a lot more trouble getting land out of the ALR these days. That can be both good and bad.

As mentioned, some of it is not farmable, but was thrown in in big swaths at the beginning. I think that after the political cronies got THEIR lands out, the ALR had to stop the bleeding and wouldn't consider letting out other land that was no dang good for farming.

We had a case a few years back, where someone tried to add us into the ALR. Apparently, they needed to 'make up' for some land they were allowing someone else to take out. If my husband hadn't happened to be at the meeting it was discussed at, it would have happened before we could have any meaningful input. We were able to successfully argue that the land was never included to begin with, because it had originally been kept out because it was NOT farmland and was meant for housing (rocky hillside, good for view property only). But, some evil planner was helping a developer to get some land out, and the ALR wanted it replaced.

It seems the ALC wants their base area of land to stay the same, or increase - they don't seem to care if the land is actually any good for farming. Well, some do, but they seem easily swayed by developments backed by city councils.
LANDM
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by LANDM »

CanuckFan wrote:People seem to have a lot more trouble getting land out of the ALR these days. That can be both good and bad.

As mentioned, some of it is not farmable, but was thrown in in big swaths at the beginning. I think that after the political cronies got THEIR lands out, the ALR had to stop the bleeding and wouldn't consider letting out other land that was no dang good for farming.

We had a case a few years back, where someone tried to add us into the ALR. Apparently, they needed to 'make up' for some land they were allowing someone else to take out. If my husband hadn't happened to be at the meeting it was discussed at, it would have happened before we could have any meaningful input. We were able to successfully argue that the land was never included to begin with, because it had originally been kept out because it was NOT farmland and was meant for housing (rocky hillside, good for view property only). But, some evil planner was helping a developer to get some land out, and the ALR wanted it replaced.

It seems the ALC wants their base area of land to stay the same, or increase - they don't seem to care if the land is actually any good for farming. Well, some do, but they seem easily swayed by developments backed by city councils.


It is not difficult getting land out of the ALR "these days" it has been difficult to impossible for the past 47 years, with the exception of the block exclusion in north glenmore and that was only at the fierce insistence of the city, not the landowners.
Yours would have not been added to replace other land without your knowledge. It doesn’t work that way, regardless of what your perception is/was.

As for political cronies, there is one poster on the board (T****s) that gloats how he removed his land from the ALR, but that is the clear exception, not the rule. To say it is infrequent is a massive understatement.
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LANDM
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by LANDM »

stuphoto wrote:I try going there yearly, and was there 2 days ago.
What a beautiful place, with an amazing local history.
It would be a shame to see it ruined be development.

I would love to see the Animal Sanctuary idea happen.
I think it would be a positive addition to the history.


The beautiful thing about it is that it is now for sale and these dreams are totally realizable by purchasing the property and creating this usage.
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dirtybiker
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by dirtybiker »

Umm. Once again. It is rangelands for sale.
Not the Ranch site itself.

Two entirely different parcels.
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stuphoto
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by stuphoto »

I at least hope we all realize that.
I think we are even mostly alright to it being sold and used for agriculture or nature habitat.
I just think we want the the developers kept away.

I would also love to see a UBCO agriculture research station built.
It could be a prime location.
CanuckFan
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by CanuckFan »

The regional district was the one moving to include our lands in the ALR, as an exchange. We were not notified ahead of time, and once we would have been told, it would have likely been too late to change the plan. Yes, we do keep involved and my husband goes to many council meetings to keep up on things.
bob vernon
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by bob vernon »

The granola and Eddie Bauer crowd speak up to try to put the brakes on this development. Expect rezoning to go ahead right after the next municipal election with building to start shortly after. Boomers from back east want the Okanagan life of ski, golf, and relatively mild weather and they've got the retirement bucks to spend.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/30 ... ange-lands
Brushy Bill
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by Brushy Bill »

Unless OKIB gets some ideas of the historic/trad/future value, then BC will just buy it for them
Ingevan22
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Re: O'Keefe rangelands for sale. NOT in ALR.

Post by Ingevan22 »

What "natural grasslands" will we need to save next, the Coldstream Ranch??? Cattle has been ranging here for 150+ years already. Residential development at East Bella Vista has been contemplated for decades already. I would love to know who does this group's research prior to issuing the press release demanding these lands be saved from development?

Of these rangelands, only 315 acres is potentially available for residential development according to our Official Community Plan (OCP). The bulk of this land is zoned by the City of Vernon as “agricultural”. I was informed that our City now has better environmental protections in place for agricultural land, that were not in place prior to Mr. Frind's purchase of an environmentally sensitive hillside.

From the OCP:
East Bella Vista residential development has been considered since at least 2001 - "cumulative impact of habitat loss is a serious concern" https://www.vernon.ca/sites/default/fil ... pact_1.pdf

Any ALR designation on these properties is likely to ensure even greater environmental destruction is in fact permitted, as per the Right to Farm Act.

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