AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Loafy
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AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by Loafy »

Heres my take on the problem with Commonage Rd.

You have to realise AIM is trying thier best... The real problem is people disregarding the speed limit on that entire stretch.. And most importantly....Failing to equip the proper tires for Winter and adjusting for the driving conditions...Did you forget you live higher up where there is more snow up on a windy plateau?

Quick to blame others but not accepting responsibilty for thier own actions... Boo Hoo.

How about respecting the speed limits up there which is 60/kmh. Not 80. Not 90. It's :cuss: 60/kmh under ideal driving conditions.

Slow the :cuss: down before pointing fingers at road maintenace crews.
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TylerM4
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by TylerM4 »

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/31 ... -Commonage

Most don't share your sentiments.

AIM has not been abiding by the terms of their contract when it comes to this road. They're not doing the work they are paid to do. "Trying their best" isn't good enough. If they can't do the job they need to refuse it. Not take the money and "Do their best".

Better tires, slowing down, etc will all help avoid accidents. But there's still a problem of a government paid contractor not doing the job they're being paid for.
AtlantisKelowna
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

Although AIM is under contract people still need to take responsibility for the way they drive in winter conditions. I drove thru there just before the accident happened and I had people tailgating me doing 40-50kph and almost every car going the opposite way was going much faster then the conditions called for. 3 vehicles passed me in those conditions and I could see each one struggling for traction while doing so.

If AIM cant meet the requirements they will be replaced by another offshore company don't worry. In the meantime our RCMP should be enforcing better winter driving habits and setting up tire checkpoints in random areas when it is snowing.

In addition this Commonage Road Improvement Committee needs to dissolve and recreate themselves into something that benefits the community not just one road. Its a great road to drive year round if you follow the posted speed limits and drive for the conditions. If its snowing go down to the highway because that gets plowed first anyway and it goes to the same place!
TylerM4
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by TylerM4 »

OK, but the same can be said for any road and any time of the year. What is this adding to the conversation?

I fail to understand why the "Drivers need to be more skilled/careful" argument is being pulled out, when it's very clear that AIM isn't maintaining the road as to the conditions of their contract. Nobody has made claims that the road conditions were the sole cause of accidents/problem.
common_sense_guy
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by common_sense_guy »

Loafy wrote:Heres my take on the problem with Commonage Rd.

You have to realise AIM is trying thier best... The real problem is people disregarding the speed limit on that entire stretch.. And most importantly....Failing to equip the proper tires for Winter and adjusting for the driving conditions...Did you forget you live higher up where there is more snow up on a windy plateau?

Quick to blame others but not accepting responsibilty for thier own actions... Boo Hoo.

How about respecting the speed limits up there which is 60/kmh. Not 80. Not 90. It's :cuss: 60/kmh under ideal driving conditions.

Slow the :cuss: down before pointing fingers at road maintenace crews.
I have a question for you. How do you know at all that the people complaining the most don't have proper winter tires and don't travel speed limit as you're suggesting. I'm going to Hazard to guess to say you don't live there at all.. and even if you do you are making abroad speculation and nothing more about the people complaining
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Glacier
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by Glacier »

The speed limit is ridiculously slow. That alone causes a lot of accidents. A friend was pulled over once, and the cop gave her a verbal warning because he agreed that the speed limit was way too low.

BTW, most of the accidents on Commonage between Predator Ridge and Vernon happen at the intersection with Bench Row Rd. My guess is that a lot of people blow through the stop sign.
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oldtrucker
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by oldtrucker »

The reason why gov't got out of road maint.....It doesn't pay.
The reason contractors don't do as good of a job as gov't.....It doesn't pay.
Another thing that applies to anywhere in BC....People here( Okanagan) have been spoiled with a plow/sand truck coming to the rescue when a few flakes hit the ground. That doesn't pay. Thinking that a road should be bare pavement- hill or no hill is unrealistic. This is Canada. Buy a 4x4 or buy tire chains for your car, move to Parksville where is doesn't snow, or don't live on a hill.
Some may view my politically incorrect opinions as harsh and may be offended by them. Some think political correctness will be our undoing.
AtlantisKelowna
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

TylerM4 wrote:OK, but the same can be said for any road and any time of the year. What is this adding to the conversation?

I fail to understand why the "Drivers need to be more skilled/careful" argument is being pulled out, when it's very clear that AIM isn't maintaining the road as to the conditions of their contract. Nobody has made claims that the road conditions were the sole cause of accidents/problem.
Yes it could but we are specifically talking about this time of year and this road right now. It is adding perspective to the conversation from a daily user of the road who disagree's with finger pointers who refuse to think of anyone but themselves and puts countless drivers at risk everyday.

I would really enjoy that road to be clear of snow the minute it starts to stick but that's unrealistic and these things take time. You think these are the only people our taxes pay that have broken a contract? Look at our Prime Minister he's a great example...at least AIM actually got the job done even if they were an hour behind!

Look at the Commanage road whiner committees argument, its all about how the road conditions are the sole reason of the accidents the other day. Yes snow is slippery so you need to slow down a bit. I guess there is no commonage sense being used on that road.
AtlantisKelowna
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

Glacier wrote:The speed limit is ridiculously slow. That alone causes a lot of accidents. A friend was pulled over once, and the cop gave her a verbal warning because he agreed that the speed limit was way too low.

BTW, most of the accidents on Commonage between Predator Ridge and Vernon happen at the intersection with Bench Row Rd. My guess is that a lot of people blow through the stop sign.
Then go down the hill and use the highway if you want to go faster! That road is full of twists, turns, blind corners and driveways all while being quite narrow. The speed limit is plenty along there even if that useless cop agreed or not.
TylerM4
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by TylerM4 »

AtlantisKelowna wrote:
Yes it could but we are specifically talking about this time of year and this road right now. It is adding perspective to the conversation from a daily user of the road who disagree's with finger pointers who refuse to think of anyone but themselves and puts countless drivers at risk everyday.

I would really enjoy that road to be clear of snow the minute it starts to stick but that's unrealistic and these things take time. You think these are the only people our taxes pay that have broken a contract? Look at our Prime Minister he's a great example...at least AIM actually got the job done even if they were an hour behind!

Look at the Commanage road whiner committees argument, its all about how the road conditions are the sole reason of the accidents the other day. Yes snow is slippery so you need to slow down a bit. I guess there is no commonage sense being used on that road.
I think you need to step back and think this through a little.

The accidents are referenced to show impact of AIM not doing their job. It makes a lot of sense to point to that accident. I'm 100% certain that RCMP report will cite "Road conditions" as a contributing factor.

Whiners until it's your road - then watch your tune change when it's you that's almost hurt/injured or can't get to your destination. The government themselves agree with the residents. THE ROAD HAS NOT BEEN MAINTAINED AS PROMISED - AIM are not doing their job and that's proven fact. Yet when residents call them out on it you label them as "whiners". You are literally saying that people should not complain when people don't get what they pay for.

A sure sign of someone not having a legitimate point is when they start with the straw man arguments and sensationalism.
"I would really enjoy that road to be clear of snow the minute it starts to stick". Nobody has that expectation and you know it. Why are you implying that myself or the residents of Commonage do? The terms of the contract are very achievable with reasonable expectations.

I'm just baffled by this. Why are you sticking up for a corporation that's billing taxpayers for a service they're not providing? The expectations outlined in the contract are very achievable - don't act like it's unreasonable. It's not even like these were "bad storms" or "it'd been snowing for days" type scenarios. There's no excuse it's simply a matter of taxpayers not getting what they are paying for.
r u sure
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by r u sure »

You know how it is: You care enough to prepare your vehicle with good wipers, lights and the best tires that money can buy, you leave early, are well rested, drive to road conditions yet you are stuck behind a few goofs that don't care enough.
One would be naive to believe that AIM operators aren't dealing with the same goofs.
TylerM4
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by TylerM4 »

r u sure wrote:You know how it is: You care enough to prepare your vehicle with good wipers, lights and the best tires that money can buy, you leave early, are well rested, drive to road conditions yet you are stuck behind a few goofs that don't care enough.
One would be naive to believe that AIM operators aren't dealing with the same goofs.
Definitely agree there - accidents can usually be avoided with better preparation/driving. But that doesn't mean that the road maintenance contractor shouldn't be held accountable for meeting the conditions specified in the contract and doesn't mean residents complaints aren't valid.
AtlantisKelowna
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

TylerM4 wrote: I think you need to step back and think this through a little.

The accidents are referenced to show impact of AIM not doing their job. It makes a lot of sense to point to that accident. I'm 100% certain that RCMP report will cite "Road conditions" as a contributing factor.
I've already spent enough time thinking and came to my conclusion. Although road conditions were indeed a contributing factor, there were a few other factor's to consider including speed and poor tires.
TylerM4 wrote: Whiners until it's your road - then watch your tune change when it's you that's almost hurt/injured or can't get to your destination. The government themselves agree with the residents. THE ROAD HAS NOT BEEN MAINTAINED AS PROMISED - AIM are not doing their job and that's proven fact. Yet when residents call them out on it you label them as "whiners". You are literally saying that people should not complain when people don't get what they pay for.
Actually, no I would rather the main roads that the larger percentage of our population use to be priority over a backroad. My road is never plowed the same day it snows, ever and is much more hazardous in the snow then any part of Commanage but in the 4 years I've lived there not a single accident due to winter conditions and everyone in the area drives according to the conditions except for a couple cool guys.

You should just be thankful that the road does get plowed at all, many of us pay taxes for the same thing and don't have the luxury of our roads being clear. I could understand if it was over a foot of snow but 3 or 4 inches is nothing to drive in so yes my opinion of the Commonage whiners still stands. Don't live on a backroad if you want in town services, pretty simple. Either that or just drive for the conditions. Super easy

TylerM4 wrote: A sure sign of someone not having a legitimate point is when they start with the straw man arguments and sensationalism.
"I would really enjoy that road to be clear of snow the minute it starts to stick". Nobody has that expectation and you know it. Why are you implying that myself or the residents of Commonage do? The terms of the contract are very achievable with reasonable expectations.
90 minutes is not all that reasonable when you take into consideration the amount of roads that need to be cleared first. Maybe 90 minutes AFTER all the class "A" roads have been dealt with would be a more realistic time frame. Not to mention when it takes half that time to accumulate the maximum amount of snow.

TylerM4 wrote: I'm just baffled by this. Why are you sticking up for a corporation that's billing taxpayers for a service they're not providing? The expectations outlined in the contract are very achievable - don't act like it's unreasonable. It's not even like these were "bad storms" or "it'd been snowing for days" type scenarios. There's no excuse it's simply a matter of taxpayers not getting what they are paying for.
I'm not sticking up for this company. Personally I think they should be replaced immediately by a local company as there is no need to give these types of contracts to other countries.

You may also want to consider that the first snowfall of the year might take a bit longer as well. I'm not saying they should not have to meet the contract my entire point is that we all pay for this service, some get much more value than others so just be thankful, use the main roads and drive for the conditions. Simple
TylerM4
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by TylerM4 »

Still a bunch of talking in circles.

It appears that you not aware that Commonage Road Is designated as a main road? Perhaps go back and re-read the articles - it is mentioned there.

Most of us would say that if a contractor can't abide by the terms of the contract, then they shouldn't take on the contract. For some reason you seem to think otherwise. Your various attempts at defending that stance are little more than fluff and excuse making on behalf of the contractor. Rather than making excuses for the company, perhaps we should hold the company accountable? Hire some additional employees and buy some additional equipment vs lining the owners pockets with an extra layer of cash?

I'm all for being reasonable and giving the contractor some slack for exceptional circumstances - these were not them. You mention 1st snowfall of the year - that's not exceptional. The snow was forecast and not unexpected - they had all summer to prepare for 1st snowfall and they've held the contract for years. It's also not a case of "whoops we'll get it right next time" - they continued to provide sub-par service even when made aware.
You should just be thankful that the road does get plowed at all, many of us pay taxes for the same thing and don't have the luxury of our roads being clear
This statement is very telling. "You are whiners and you shouldn't complain because I have it worse" is super petty argument. Especially when their complaints have been found valid and the contractor fined as a result. They weren't wrong yet you still want to call them whiners.
AtlantisKelowna
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Re: AIM vs. Commonage Rd.

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

TylerM4 wrote: Still a bunch of talking in circles.

It appears that you not aware that Commonage Road Is designated as a main road? Perhaps go back and re-read the articles - it is mentioned there.

Most of us would say that if a contractor can't abide by the terms of the contract, then they shouldn't take on the contract. For some reason you seem to think otherwise. Your various attempts at defending that stance are little more than fluff and excuse making on behalf of the contractor. Rather than making excuses for the company, perhaps we should hold the company accountable? Hire some additional employees and buy some additional equipment vs lining the owners pockets with an extra layer of cash?
I never once said they should not have to meet the contract that they signed. Only one side of the story has been reported so how can you pass a judgement when you don't know the circumstances. Many people are dealing with hard times and neither of us know if it was ignorance or a legitimate reason that it took longer to have the road cleared than promised. Did the committee reach out to AIM and ask what the delay was? No, they decided to slam them in the media to get there point across and that is just sad.

My point has remained the same, the road's were not that bad and still passable if your vehicle was equipped for winter driving and drove for the conditions. That's it that's all.

TylerM4 wrote: I'm all for being reasonable and giving the contractor some slack for exceptional circumstances - these were not them. You mention 1st snowfall of the year - that's not exceptional. The snow was forecast and not unexpected - they had all summer to prepare for 1st snowfall and they've held the contract for years. It's also not a case of "whoops we'll get it right next time" - they continued to provide sub-par service even when made aware.
In order to be reasonable you would need to look at both sides and judging by your comments you haven't done that.
TylerM4 wrote:
You should just be thankful that the road does get plowed at all, many of us pay taxes for the same thing and don't have the luxury of our roads being clear
This statement is very telling. "You are whiners and you shouldn't complain because I have it worse" is super petty argument. Especially when their complaints have been found valid and the contractor fined as a result. They weren't wrong yet you still want to call them whiners.
You can try and twist my words if that makes you feel smart but that isn't what I was saying at all. I've never complained about snow removal because at the end of the day it is my own responsibility to get the places I need to go. If I'm going to live in the Okanagan and not have a vehicle that can safely navigate in the snow or not drive for the conditions and wreck that's my problem not the tax payers. I don't have it worse and never implied that either. Clearly you didn't understand what I meant when I said WE all pay for this contract but not all of us get the same value from it.

One of these days someone else will die from their own or another's poor choice on that road. I feel enforcing driving laws along that stretch would go a lot further than complaining about snow removal.

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