Frind Winery along Tronson

outtawind
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Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by outtawind »

My impression is, from anyone who watched the first blade begin clearing land on this slope - that the drainage issues was glaringly obvious from the get-go.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/32 ... ry-project

Guess BC Lands in Victoria had trouble reading a topographical map to figure out that the entire slope drains towards the lake. Scrape off 300 years of grasses, sage and animal habitat and what did they think was going to happen... gee?

The new plan you ask?... ran into the surveyor-contractors on Tronson two weeks back, they're literally going to PIPE the drainage straight into Okanagan lake down the access strips between properties. If my map-reading is correct, that is directly into 'protected mussel' zones - right into a 'red' zone in fact!

YEP - all that fertilizer, pesticides... now by direct pipe into the lake. Yum Yum ecosystem - hope you're hungry for nigh nitrates and "organic" pesticides! That term is great, btw... a pesticide that is "organic", almost sounds harmless.

Guess money talks. The houses along the water there should be fuming, I'll bet BC Lands watches them with an absolute eagle eye, and now will pencil-push Frind's "drainage remediation" to allow the toxins swiftly flow straight into the water. :up:
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by TylerM4 »

That slope has been mostly the same since the glaciers made it that way. The reason residents are seeing changes is because they removed all of the vegetation which is increasing runoff. As soon as the vineyard is established, things will go back to normal.

This is a problem about runoff - not drainage. And it's a problem that's expected to be resolved.

The only long term concern is if the vineyard over-waters, resulting in additional drainage requirements and potential runoff. That's unlikely tho - grapes are very prone to problems that occur from over-watering. They'll be very motivated to avoid over watering.
bob vernon
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by bob vernon »

A wet spring, then a very heavy thunderstorm in late May or early June, and I expect that wall will wind up down the hill along with a gigantic ooze of mud. "But .... but... a geotechnical firm signed off on it".
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by TylerM4 »

bob vernon wrote:"But .... but... a geotechnical firm signed off on it".
Curious as to whether you know if a geotech has indeed signed off? Hard to tell if the wall in the pic is holding back more than 4' of soil.
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vegas1500
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by vegas1500 »

He’s got serious *bleep* money and isn’t afraid to spend it. A friend works closely with him on the Kelowna project up by Tower ranch. He doesn’t hesitate to purchase multi million dollar homes to make problems go away. I got a tour of the site and the money and technology going into the state of the art irrigation system is mind blowing.
outtawind
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by outtawind »

TylerM4 wrote:That slope has been mostly the same since the glaciers made it that way. The reason residents are seeing changes is because they removed all of the vegetation which is increasing runoff. As soon as the vineyard is established, things will go back to normal.

This is a problem about runoff - not drainage. And it's a problem that's expected to be resolved.

The only long term concern is if the vineyard over-waters, resulting in additional drainage requirements and potential runoff. That's unlikely tho - grapes are very prone to problems that occur from over-watering. They'll be very motivated to avoid over watering.
Correct. And... given you are clearly familiar with the issue - you notice where the drainage ravines from that upland property and the overwaters go. Okanagan Lake. As you know, those ravines are there from erosion. Go to bench road and look across. The PIPE they intend to put in will certainly help assure 100% now makes it directly to the lake. There is no claim that frind will intentionally water so much as to cause runoff - it is the rain and water totally out of their control which is at issue.

The “only temporary” answer is not accurate and is misleading at best. Purposefully erroneous at worst. Unless his money can also control the weather and prevent precipitation, his chemicals will, without any doubt, end up straight through that pipe.
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by TylerM4 »

outtawind wrote:
Correct. And... given you are clearly familiar with the issue - you notice where the drainage ravines from that upland property and the overwaters go. Okanagan Lake. As you know, those ravines are there from erosion. Go to bench road and look across. The PIPE they intend to put in will certainly help assure 100% now makes it directly to the lake. There is no claim that frind will intentionally water so much as to cause runoff - it is the rain and water totally out of their control which is at issue.

The “only temporary” answer is not accurate and is misleading at best. Purposefully erroneous at worst. Unless his money can also control the weather and prevent precipitation, his chemicals will, without any doubt, end up straight through that pipe.
So they're putting a pipe all the way from their property to the lake rather than allowing any runoff to naturally follow the ravine?

My experience has been, that once an area is planted and grass is growing between the rows it takes a heck of a lot of water before we see overland runoff.

Almost all vineyards are on steep slopes. That's how they like to grow. I've worked a few. Never had any overland dainage problems once the plants and grass are established. Overland runoff causes errosion and all sorts of problems for the vineyard, they'll take steps to prevent it where they can.
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by bob vernon »

outtawind
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by outtawind »

I know, right? Actual transcript below... [icon_lol2.gif]

Neighbor: "our properties are flooding - this was obvious to all, why was mitigation not part of the plan?"
Frind: "unexpected runoff is causing problems for our downslope neighbors, it could not have been anticipated."
Neighbor: "What? You removed 100% of the vegitation and set a perfect grade of packed upslope dirt towards my home?!"
Also Frind: "This areas long history of flooding is the problem... we're here to fix this long existing and historical problem"
Neighbor: "What? Just, What!?!" :200:

They've got the spin-doctors and biostitutes working double-time on this one!
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dirtybiker
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by dirtybiker »

:147: :138:

Show me the money !
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by bob vernon »

Look at a satellite image of this area. It's available on Google Earth. There are (or were) a few drainages down this slope, and they are recognizable by the brush growing along the drainages. There hasn't been a history of flooding in this neightbourhood. The development on the slope has changed the drainage. Look at the video again. Notice the large number of places where the water has eroded down the dark soil and even knocked over a few of those concrete blocks.

This flooding was caused by a few centimetres of snow melting. Just wait until there is a heavy thunderstorm this spring.
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by TylerM4 »

Agreed. It's a normal hillside. You see this same thing all up and down the valley.

Those gullies aren't there due to typical seasonal runoff tho. They'd be much more pronounced if that was the case. They are leftovers from atypical situations. Such as exceptional runoff due to grass/forest fires and loss of vegetation, "once every 25 year" storms, etc.

To avoid confusion you really should get into the habit of using the word "runoff". This is a runoff problem, not a drainage problem. Drainage means a very different thing when it comes to groundwater.
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oneh2obabe
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by oneh2obabe »

City of Vernon issued a stop work order.

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#324226
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by nicholas p »

bob vernon wrote:Look at a satellite image of this area. It's available on Google Earth. There are (or were) a few drainages down this slope, and they are recognizable by the brush growing along the drainages. There hasn't been a history of flooding in this neightbourhood. The development on the slope has changed the drainage. Look at the video again. Notice the large number of places where the water has eroded down the dark soil and even knocked over a few of those concrete blocks.

This flooding was caused by a few centimetres of snow melting. Just wait until there is a heavy thunderstorm this spring.
I don't understand why soo much publicity as its common sense water flows down the hill not other way. The persons who bought property bottom of the slope has to be prepared to rock slide, water damage etc as more developments happens on the top of the slope let it be wine yard or condo or houses. Only advantage of having winery is once the plants grow the erosion reduces as the roots hold the earth & allows earth to absorb water, but when buildings built are the water from snow melting and erosion is forever.
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Fancy
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Re: Frind Winery along Tronson

Post by Fancy »

nicholas p wrote:The persons who bought property bottom of the slope has to be prepared to rock slide, water damage etc as more developments happens on the top of the slope let it be wine yard or condo or houses.
When people have lived there for 40 years plus I wouldn't expect them to be prepared for what's happening now.
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