Another Cigarette?

Fire-related topics

Should another tax be levied on cigarettes (and related products) to combat fires?

Yes
41
51%
No
34
42%
I don't care
6
7%
 
Total votes : 81

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby dieseluphammerdown » Jul 6th, 2015, 8:34 am

Gixxer wrote:Well done dieseluphammerdown, no need to be insulting though. I can read articles just fine, like the ones were ignorant brain dead smokers have started forest fires.

Of those abandoned camp fires how many were smokers?
Article didn't say, but it did say "campfires" so should all campers pay more in taxes to compensate the fire fighting costs?
This message brought to you by a proud old stock Canadian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Id love to spit some beechnut in that dudes eyes
And shoot him with my old 45
User avatar
dieseluphammerdown
Guru
 
Posts: 5255
Likes: 5182 posts
Liked in: 3116 posts
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2009, 7:31 am

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby mexi cali » Jul 6th, 2015, 8:39 am

so because I smoke I'm more likely to cause a forest fire than others? Again grouping all smokers into the same category is flawed and offensive.!


Ummmm, yah. That's kind of like saying that a lit match is more likely to cause a fire than an unlit one.
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition
User avatar
mexi cali
Guru
 
Posts: 7382
Likes: 4343 posts
Liked in: 6120 posts
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 1:48 pm

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby kgcayenne » Jul 6th, 2015, 8:42 am

Buttflickers are the problem, not smokers.

The 'thinking challenge' is that: not all smokers are buttflickers, but all butflickers are smokers, so y'all have to be cozy with taking one for the team on the virtue of being one.
"without knowledge, he multiplies mere words."
Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your kids.

dieseluphammerdown likes this post.
User avatar
kgcayenne
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 14296
Likes: 2896 posts
Liked in: 5284 posts
Joined: Aug 10th, 2005, 5:35 pm
Location: West Kelowna

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby dieseluphammerdown » Jul 6th, 2015, 8:51 am

mexicalidreamer wrote:
Ummmm, yah. That's kind of like saying that a lit match is more likely to cause a fire than an unlit one.
So because one smokes he must be a risk of starting a wild fire ? LOL oh boy and here I thought those lines of thinking were by the minority of non smokers, it may just be an epidemic.

Oh ya and to stay on topic no to tax increases.
This message brought to you by a proud old stock Canadian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Id love to spit some beechnut in that dudes eyes
And shoot him with my old 45
User avatar
dieseluphammerdown
Guru
 
Posts: 5255
Likes: 5182 posts
Liked in: 3116 posts
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2009, 7:31 am

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby mexi cali » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:01 am

So because one smokes he must be a risk of starting a wild fire ?


Ummmm, yah. How can having a lit piece of paper and leaves not be considered a risk?
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition
User avatar
mexi cali
Guru
 
Posts: 7382
Likes: 4343 posts
Liked in: 6120 posts
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 1:48 pm

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby Poindexter » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:03 am

dieseluphammerdown wrote:Do all campers abide by the campfire bans ? I'd say NO as we still here of wild fires started by abandoned or un attended camp fires even during bans. Some whether smokers or non smokers just don't get it , so I don't believe it is comparing apples to oranges.
Do you want to pay more taxes on camping because of a very small minority who ignore the bans.?


But the vast majority of campers do adhere to the campfire ban and those caught are subject to penalty. Are the vast majority of smokers willing to adhere to a smoking ban and be subject to penalty if caught. Why shouldn't smokers be asked to sacrifice as well in order to play a role in prevention? There's absolutely to disputing the facts smokers cause many of the forest fires that cost the economy millions. Given you're not willing to contribute to fire prevention by butting out there needs to a way to quantify your role in fixing the problem you directly cause through a personal habit. Therefore it makes sense that an additional tax during fire season should be implemented to make up for your unwillingness to contribute in other ways. Fair is fair and I'd say now were comparing apple to apples.
User avatar
Poindexter
Guru
 
Posts: 6166
Likes: 4219 posts
Liked in: 4761 posts
Joined: May 26th, 2008, 10:44 am

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby hype14 » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:13 am

I'd go one step further - Why don't we just put an additional tax on everything and anything that could possible start or contribute to a fire so that it's fair to EVERYONE?...Let's put additional taxes on vehicles, garbage, matches, lighters, paper, pens/pencils, coal, charcoal, bbqs, camping gear, wood, tarps, lawn/garden supplies, mirrors, and so on and so forth...

Those who think that only smokers are to blame really need to get their heads out of the sand!

2 people like this post.
hype14
Fledgling
 
Posts: 232
Likes: 70 posts
Liked in: 369 posts
Joined: Jul 13th, 2012, 10:55 am

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby dieseluphammerdown » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:14 am

mexicalidreamer wrote:
Ummmm, yah. How can having a lit piece of paper and leaves not be considered a risk?
It's called using good judgement and not just lighting up anywhere. When camping and especially camping in the bush I always have a container whether it be a beer can or pop can that is half full of water to put both ashes and butt in.
The majority of us smokers are responsible and aware of our surroundings and don't just wander aimlessly through the bush with lit cigarette's.
Good grief just because one smokes it does not make them the brain dead people some would have you believe.
This message brought to you by a proud old stock Canadian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Id love to spit some beechnut in that dudes eyes
And shoot him with my old 45

Donald G likes this post.
User avatar
dieseluphammerdown
Guru
 
Posts: 5255
Likes: 5182 posts
Liked in: 3116 posts
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2009, 7:31 am

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby dieseluphammerdown » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:20 am

Poindexter wrote:
But the vast majority of campers do adhere to the campfire ban and those caught are subject to penalty. Are the vast majority of smokers willing to adhere to a smoking ban and be subject to penalty if caught. Why shouldn't smokers be asked to sacrifice as well in order to play a role in prevention? There's absolutely to disputing the facts smokers cause many of the forest fires that cost the economy millions. Given you're not willing to contribute to fire prevention by butting out there needs to a way to quantify your role in fixing the problem you directly cause through a personal habit. Therefore it makes sense that an additional tax during fire season should be implemented to make up for your unwillingness to contribute in other ways. Fair is fair and I'd say now were comparing apple to apples.
We go through that every day with all the anti smoking bans in society and again not all but most respect these laws as to where smoking is and isn't allowed.

Yep there are some bad apples that smoke and have caused forest fires I whole heartedly agree with that.

There are also bad apple non smokers who ignore bans and cause fires , so I should just lump you in with them as after all fair is fair right?
This message brought to you by a proud old stock Canadian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Id love to spit some beechnut in that dudes eyes
And shoot him with my old 45

Donald G likes this post.
User avatar
dieseluphammerdown
Guru
 
Posts: 5255
Likes: 5182 posts
Liked in: 3116 posts
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2009, 7:31 am

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby Donald G » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:26 am

Saying that only one group of people are irresponsible enough to cause forest fires due to negligence is like saying that only one group of people cause all of the accidents on our roads. There is absolutely no way that such statements can be supported by credible evidence.

2 people like this post.
Donald G
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 20156
Likes: 9343 posts
Liked in: 4225 posts
Joined: Jan 29th, 2008, 8:42 pm

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby Star Light » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:28 am

No, there should not another tax be levied on cigarettes (and related products) to combat fires?
Life is what happens while we are making plans for tomorrow
User avatar
Star Light
Guru
 
Posts: 7140
Likes: 180 posts
Liked in: 78 posts
Joined: Aug 16th, 2010, 6:07 pm
Location: Vernon

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby mexi cali » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:28 am

To the question;

If an increase in taxes on cigarettes helped to alleviate the burden on communities and their fire fighting budgets, then yes.

Why?? because cigarettes are an easy target. They are obvious.

Campers can also be some of the most irresponsible people when it comes to camp fire management or adherence to laws surrounding open burning. It drives me crazy when you hear campers lament that "it just isn't camping without a fire".

Fires are great. Nothing like sitting around a campfire when it's 95 degrees out. And when it's ninety five degrees out, usually there are campfire bans. Ya know; cuz it's ninety five degrees out.

Campers supposedly are people who have an appreciation for the great outdoors yet hundreds of fires are caused every year by unattended fires left behind by inconsiderate campers.

Smokers are also guilty. Obviously not all of them but enough of them that they are targeted.

Follow any car with an open window with a hand hanging out of it clutching a cigarette and you will eventually see that cigarette being discarded. A real smoker doesn't need open windows and they know what the ash tray is for.

I know smokers whose ash trays are pristine inside their 5 year old cars because they are concerned that when it comes time to sell the car, a smelly ash tray may be a deterrent to prospective buyers. How's that for logic?

At the end of the day, whether it's smokers or stupid campers or kids playing with burny things, forest fires are grossly expensive to fight and dangerous.

If the government wanted to impose a levy on me as a camper each time I used a camping spot that was intended to offset forest fire fighting costs, I would be OK with that even though I am 100% paranoid about leaving a fire that Has even the smallest chance of not being completely out. My fire pits look like a garden pond when I leave.

If I were still a smoker, I would be OK with additional tax for the same reason.

More than that though, I wish that there was a way to humiliate and punish by way of large fines people who carelessly discard cigarette butts or campers who walk away from fires or the families of kids who start fires.

But we don't like to humiliate our brethren so we do nothing. Except for *bleep* about those people we observe participating in any manner of irresponsible activities regardless of the potential for disaster.

I have seen enough destruction and changed lives due to fires regardless of how they were caused and it makes me really angry when the cause of a fire is determined to be human.

I admit that as soon as I heard and then saw where the Joe Rich fire started, that being right beside the road, my first thought was that it was a discarded cigarette to blame.

And I think that I have a better than 50/50 chance of being right.

I like KG's analysis. Buttflickers are to blame. Not smokers.

Let's all be responsible for ourselves. Yah!!!!!!! Let's give that a try!!
Last edited by mexi cali on Jul 6th, 2015, 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition

dieseluphammerdown likes this post.
User avatar
mexi cali
Guru
 
Posts: 7382
Likes: 4343 posts
Liked in: 6120 posts
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 1:48 pm

Re: Throwing live butts out the car window...

Postby Fancy » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:28 am

westbankkid wrote:It's about time that if you see someone flicking a lit cigarette out the window, take their licence number and report them.

Seems to be a good idea - why tax cigarettes when the butt throwers can be fined?
Fancy this, Fancy that and by the way, T*t for Tat

dieseluphammerdown likes this post.
User avatar
Fancy
Insanely Prolific
 
Posts: 54571
Likes: 1870 posts
Liked in: 10055 posts
Joined: Apr 15th, 2006, 5:23 pm

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby mexi cali » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:33 am

Good grief just because one smokes it does not make them the brain dead people some would have you believe.


Pretty sure I never said that it did.

Also pretty sure that I am capable of forming my own opinions.

Pointed this out before; smoked for 30 years so I have sat on both sides of the fence.

I also honestly admit that as a smoker, I discarded cigarettes out the window of my car.

And that would point to deadness of brain.

It makes me sick to think of what I might have been responsible for. Maybe was responsible for and never knew.

That's what pisses me off.
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition

3 people like this post.
User avatar
mexi cali
Guru
 
Posts: 7382
Likes: 4343 posts
Liked in: 6120 posts
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 1:48 pm

Re: Another Cigarette?

Postby Bunnyhop » Jul 6th, 2015, 9:41 am

The concept of "fair" has nothing to do with it.

Discarded cigarettes start fires that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to extinguish. That is a fact.

Adding a tax to cigarette sales to supplement the province's fire fighting budget - why not?

2 people like this post.
Bunnyhop
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 768
Likes: 1298 posts
Liked in: 562 posts
Joined: Dec 13th, 2009, 6:47 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Fire Watch 2015

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests