3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby Bunnyhop » May 16th, 2018, 11:29 am

GordonH those are directional signs, not traffic signs.

It’s perfectly legal, and often safer, to make the northbound turn onto Hwy 97 from the south intersection.

Both intersections are sketchy though and require care when turning northbound onto 97 from 3A.
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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby JagXKR » May 16th, 2018, 11:46 am

GordonH
It matters not what you think. It matters if it is legal or not. Please show me the "no left turn" sign.

Good luck because it doesn't exist regardless of whether it should be there or not.


https://goo.gl/maps/DmGXwdQ5Zdk

There is no second turning left off 3A (heading north)
Wrong.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.

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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby GordonH » May 16th, 2018, 11:49 am

Bunnyhop wrote:GordonH those are directional signs, not traffic signs.

It’s perfectly legal, and often safer, to make the northbound turn onto Hwy 97 from the south intersection.

Both intersections are sketchy though and require care when turning northbound onto 97 from 3A.


According to MOTI its under traffic sign https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/tran ... #catalogue
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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby GordonH » May 16th, 2018, 11:59 am

JagXKR wrote:GordonH
It matters not what you think. It matters if it is legal or not. Please show me the "no left turn" sign.

Good luck because it doesn't exist regardless of whether it should be there or not.


https://goo.gl/maps/DmGXwdQ5Zdk

There is no second turning left off 3A (heading north)
Wrong.


You can interpret signs as you wish, I will follow those placed by MOTI.
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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby OKkayak » May 16th, 2018, 12:08 pm

GordonH wrote:
According to MOTI its under traffic sign https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/tran ... #catalogue

You're right, it is a "traffic sign" but it is not a regulatory sign it is a mere information/guide sign. Therefore it is not telling you what you can or cannot not do its simply telling you where the continuation of the direction of a certain road is.

GordonH wrote:You can interpret signs as you wish, I will follow those placed by MOTI.

Your interoperation is grossly false.
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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby rustled » May 16th, 2018, 12:16 pm

It's not really a matter of interpretation, though. What you've linked to is the signage catalogue for MOTI engineers and contractors.

Even here, they explain the difference between regulatory signs and informational signs.

Regulatory Signs: Notify the motorist of traffic regulations that apply which would not otherwise be apparent. Disregard of these signs constitutes a legal offense.
...
Guide Signs: Display route designations, destinations, direction and distances to assist motorists in navigating to their destination.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/drivi ... arking.pdf


That sign isn't a regulatory sign. Here's their catalogue listing for those:
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/drivi ... _signs.pdf

It's a guide sign:
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/drivi ... _signs.pdf

But what you really want is this:
http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Do ... ivers3.pdf

Note again the difference between regulatory and informational signs.

I'll be happy to see them do something with that intersection. When turning left from 3A onto 97 at the scales, I have to position my vehicle carefully to ensure 97 to my right isn't obstructed by the post in my car (the area between the windshield and the passenger window).

I've often wondered why there isn't an overpass, since the hill there would simplify building one. Perhaps it's because it's locatee or PIB land.

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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby pentona » May 16th, 2018, 12:23 pm

rustled wrote:
I'll be happy to see them do something with that intersection. When turning left from 3A onto 97 at the scales, I have to position my vehicle carefully to ensure 97 to my right isn't obstructed by the post in my car (the area between the windshield and the passenger window).

I've often wondered why there isn't an overpass, since the hill there would simplify building one. Perhaps it's because it's locatee or PIB land.


I believe that an overpass would be an excellent solution to the problem and if it was done at the South entrance to 97, the hill is much steeper there; would be very easy to build an "underpass".

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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby fluffy » May 16th, 2018, 12:43 pm

Always Sunny wrote:This is what I was describing. I’ve seen people take the right-hand fork as though they’re headed to OK Falls, and then because of the stop sign (not a yield) where that section meets 97, make the left turn northbound back toward Penticton.


Think for a second. People taking the right hand fork with the intention of turning north onto 97 are generally making that choice because there is a lineup at the stop sign. This says something about the patience level of those drivers which makes them a higher risk to start with.
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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby rustled » May 16th, 2018, 12:53 pm

fluffy wrote:
Always Sunny wrote:This is what I was describing. I’ve seen people take the right-hand fork as though they’re headed to OK Falls, and then because of the stop sign (not a yield) where that section meets 97, make the left turn northbound back toward Penticton.


Think for a second. People taking the right hand fork with the intention of turning north onto 97 are generally making that choice because there is a lineup at the stop sign. This says something about the patience level of those drivers which makes them a higher risk to start with.

Drivers also make this choice when there's no line-up. (You'll see this when you're travelling south on 97. No one waiting at the first entry, but a vehicle or two at the second entry with their left-turn signal on.)

As I posted previously, the angle of approach is bad for visibility (worse for some vehicles than others).

It's not necessarily about impatience, and may be about trying to make the safest possible choice.
Last edited by rustled on May 16th, 2018, 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby GordonH » May 16th, 2018, 12:54 pm

Overpass is best solution to avoid accidents from those turning left either off or onto the main route (that being Hwy 97). Of course MOTI is the body that needs to approve the change, which tends to happen if enough accidents do happen (unfortunately).

As for signage MOTI places whichever one best fits situation, be it regulatory or guide. Its in the best interest of drivers to follow as directed.
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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby rustled » May 16th, 2018, 1:00 pm

GordonH wrote:Overpass is best solution to avoid accidents from those turning left either off or onto the main route (that being Hwy 97). Of course MOTI is the body that needs to approve the change, which tends to happen if enough accidents do happen (unfortunately).

As for signage MOTI places whichever one best fits situation, be it regulatory or guide. Its in the best interest of drivers to follow as directed.

WADR, GordonH, IMO you are on the wrong track re: the signage. Regulatory signage gets too little respect as it is (particularly where no left turns are allowed). It's in no one's best interest to dilute the importance of regulatory signage by lumping in informational and guide signage as though following these is of similar importance.

Totally agree it's unlikely we'll see an overpass for the left turns until there's adequate carnage.
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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby pentona » May 16th, 2018, 1:18 pm

rustled wrote:
Totally agree it's unlikely we'll see an overpass for the left turns until there's adequate carnage.


There have been plenty of accidents in the past decade to warrant such changes. Putting an underpass under Hwy 97 at the South entrance would be much cheaper than an overpass and would almost eliminate accidents in future.
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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby GordonH » May 16th, 2018, 1:21 pm

GordonH wrote:Overpass is best solution to avoid accidents from those turning left either off or onto the main route (that being Hwy 97). Of course MOTI is the body that needs to approve the change, which tends to happen if enough accidents do happen (unfortunately).

As for signage MOTI places whichever one best fits situation, be it regulatory or guide. Its in the best interest of drivers to follow as directed.

rustled wrote:WADR, GordonH, IMO you are on the wrong track re: the signage. Regulatory signage gets too little respect as it is (particularly where no left turns are allowed). It's in no one's best interest to dilute the importance of regulatory signage by lumping in informational and guide signage as though following these is of similar importance.
Some drivers feel they are above the law so even Regulatory signage won't stop them from doing stupid sh :swear:
Totally agree it's unlikely we'll see an overpass for the left turns until there's adequate carnage.


I abide by both Regulatory & guide rustled, hence I have totally clean driving record (with the exception of couple speeding tickets shortly after getting my D/L... which was many many decades ago... no accidents).
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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby rustled » May 16th, 2018, 2:28 pm

GordonH wrote:...
I abide by both Regulatory & guide rustled, hence I have totally clean driving record (with the exception of couple speeding tickets shortly after getting my D/L... which was many many decades ago... no accidents).

Congratulations on your clean record.

Informational/guide signs are helpful suggestions. As there is nothing for drivers to "abide" by, there is truly no point in anyone implying drivers who make a different choice at this particular intersection are in the wrong, and I'm surprised anyone feels it's worth their effort to persist in doing just that.

pentona: overpass or underpass, I'm all for whichever makes the most sense.
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Re: 3 car crash hwy 97 and hwy 3

Postby GordonH » May 16th, 2018, 3:14 pm

rustled wrote:Informational/guide signs are helpful suggestions. As there is nothing for drivers to "abide" by, there is truly no point in anyone implying drivers who make a different choice at this particular intersection are in the wrong, and I'm surprised anyone feels it's worth their effort to persist in doing just that.


Regulatory sign I see daily that is ignored by most drivers on Harvey/97. HOV lane sign are just that Regulatory, RCMP could make a killing with fines alone. Of course proving drivers are not in that lane to take the next right, would be rather hard... so RCMP just does not enforce the HOV lanes.
I'm sure there are others as well being ignored.
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