Boonstock

[twobits]

I owe an apology to Gixer. I had the chance to speak to my daughter today and get some clarification. I was in error when I said she declared her personal alcohol and was admitted. She did not. She declared her 1/4 oz of weed and was admitted. She also said that alcohol found at security check in was dumped. She also added however that anyone with half a brain would have no trouble smuggling in a reasonable amount for personal consumption. Beer being the hardest because of bulk.

It is moot to me however. The hypocrisy still reins supreme when they will allow illegal drugs to enter and not a legal one. It is their absolute prerogative to put on a alcohol free venue. I have no problem with that right. What is baffling is that illegal drugs are turned a blind eye to, and even provided testing for, only because the crowd is easier to control when on the illegal drug than a legal one.
Gixer, you have also posted previously that the drug testing stations are there to save lives. I would appreciate some confirmation from you that of all of the festival deaths in the past five years, how many of them were attributable to tainted drugs rather than overdoses of drugs that would have passed the scrutiny of the drug testing tents. I have no recollection of Coroner reports that the cause of death at a festival was because of tainted drugs. Seems to me that most the deaths at these music festivals as a result of over doses on drugs that would get a pass at the drug test tent. I concede I am not sure but think that to be accurate. If there were deaths due to tainted drugs, do we assume these people would have got them tested had a testing station been available? And while alcohol may make the crowd less manageable, I don't recall a single festival death as a result of alcohol poisoning or alcohol fueled violent act.
Crowd manageability would also seem to be why the RCMP will walk right by the drug test station and not bust someone clearly in possession of MDMA. The grand hypocrisy is they are not measuring the risk of death to patrons, they are measuring how difficult managing the crowd would be and that becomes a bottom line expense and ultimately profit for the organizers. We would have a serious problem if the same measure of enforcement were applied to drivers on our Hwy's.

[Pat-Taporter]

So we have gone from "How to prevent future deaths at music festivals" to discussing the benefits of MDMA - sure makes a lot of sense to me - NOT!

This is how I’ve gone from posting about preventing future deaths at festivals to posting about the social benefits of festivals, as well as posting about how, if MDMA is employed properly then it can enhance and actually extend emotional empathy and prosocial behavior. At this point, though, from my perspective, the last two subjects are still separate, and they would still have to have a lot of cooperative work done on them to perhaps draw any separate conclusions, as well as before they might be brought together into a single proposal about festivals being of progressive benefit to society or not. But then, maybe exploring any of that isn't worth it at all.

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Bedtime for this old fart.

[fluffy]

What is baffling is that illegal drugs are turned a blind eye to, and even provided testing for, only because the crowd is easier to control when on the illegal drug than a legal one.

Not really that baffling when you look into the whole rave subculture. Electronic 'trance' music, extensive light shows, close body contact, all-nighter music schedule...this is an environment more suited to psychedelics and the so-called "party" drugs than to alcohol. And yes, when you're hosting a party for a few thousand young adults, crowd control is a huge consideration. There is no shortage of instances where alcohol fueled festivals turned out to be short-lived because the problems that came along with the booze just got out of hand.

[Pat-Taporter]

Yikes!

I’m hooked!

https://soundcloud.com/shambhalamusicfestival

Nice way for an old fart to start the day.

First track: 23:00

[Gixxer]

It is moot to me however. The hypocrisy still reins supreme when they will allow illegal drugs to enter and not a legal one. It is their absolute prerogative to put on a alcohol free venue. I have no problem with that right. What is baffling is that illegal drugs are turned a blind eye to, and even provided testing for, only because the crowd is easier to control when on the illegal drug than a legal one.

They dont allow illegal drugs in.

ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES

The first word says it all here, doesn’t it? Matters involving illegal substances will be turned over to the RCMP. Period. Paraphernalia for illegal drug use will also be confiscated and handed over to RCMP. Leave it at home!

Gixer, you have also posted previously that the drug testing stations are there to save lives. I would appreciate some confirmation from you that of all of the festival deaths in the past five years, how many of them were attributable to tainted drugs rather than overdoses of drugs that would have passed the scrutiny of the drug testing tents. I have no recollection of Coroner reports that the cause of death at a festival was because of tainted drugs. Seems to me that most the deaths at these music festivals as a result of over doses on drugs that would get a pass at the drug test tent. I concede I am not sure but think that to be accurate. If there were deaths due to tainted drugs, do we assume these people would have got them tested had a testing station been available?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri ... e20081824/

http://www.nelsonstar.com/news/306012261.html

https://tenthstreetdinner.wordpress.com ... l-culture/

http://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/121 ... ase-safety

And while alcohol may make the crowd less manageable, I don't recall a single festival death as a result of alcohol poisoning or alcohol fueled violent act.

I dont have an answer to this, show me a music fest where attendees only drink alcohol.

Crowd manageability would also seem to be why the RCMP will walk right by the drug test station and not bust someone clearly in possession of MDMA. The grand hypocrisy is they are not measuring the risk of death to patrons, they are measuring how difficult managing the crowd would be and that becomes a bottom line expense and ultimately profit for the organizers. We would have a serious problem if the same measure of enforcement were applied to drivers on our Hwy's.

So because drugs are illegal you figure that the testing tent shouldn't be there? That people should put their faith and lives into the street dealers?

http://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/765 ... alize-mdma

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/16 ... illed-teen

http://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/ ... used-death

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/96 ... owna-teens

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/96 ... -and-drugs

http://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/ ... on-streets


Take the time to read and watch the link to clip I posted, maybe it will help you understand better about the Hypocrisy of the testing tent.

Lets assume your daughter takes MDMA (I have a feeling she does) would you rather her test the pills or trust the dealer.

Ask your daughter more questions about the festival and the testing tent. You'll probably listen with an open mind, and be less argumentative like you are with me.

[logman]

Thank you Gixxer for the link to the documentary. Interesting indeed. It seems people are buying a combination of who knows what from who knows where.

[the truth]

correct and people on here seem to think its ok harm reduction tent lol lol lol

[Gixxer]

correct and people on here seem to think its ok harm reduction tent lol lol lol

Do you have a better suggestion?

[the truth]

ya,stop enabling

[fluffy]

ya,stop enabling

The inclusion of drug testing facilities is clearly an exercise in realism, a sort of surrender to the enormous difficulty of curbing drug use at music festivals by any measure short of disallowing the festivals entirely.

[Gixxer]

ya,stop enabling

And how do you stop enabling?

[Pat-Taporter]

ya,stop enabling

And how do you stop enabling?

LOL, Gixxer, I hope you're not holding your breath.

I think you've provided us with a wealth of resources in support of drug testing facilities.

I see where a lot of ‘responsible-awareness’ work went into that.

Thank you.

So this morning I read all of those articles and watched all of What's In My Baggie?

Now I fully support the promotion of drug testing facilities.

And, in light of southy’s earlier comment about discussing the benefits of MDMA, here’s something that struck me from the video you provided.

Sean Dunagan, DEA Former Senior Research Specialist. (34:40)

. . . criminal organizations who by their very nature, their pursuit is of money and power and not of social benefit. So, while I think there are some people out there who are probably making MDMA and other substances because they think it helps people (to obtain the pure product), and in a lot of cases I think they’re right, I think by and large what we’ve done with our prohibitionist policy is to sort of squeeze those people who care more about the potential societal benefits of using the mind altering substances, kind of pushed them out of the marketplace and replaced them with more often than not, violent criminal actors who don’t have as pure a motives, and unfortunately, law enforcement doesn’t make any distinction whatever . . ..

And that is as close as I want to ever get here to touching on how festivals and MDMA might possibly go together to benefit society.

But I’ll leave everybody with a blanket thought:

If we don’t formally try to find out what the clinical benefits of drugs like MDMA are (such as ‘it enhances emotional empathy and prosocial behavior’) then we won’t be able to project why people (even inadvertently) are seeking those benefits.
And if we can project why people are seeking those benefits, then we can also project how society might be able to fulfill those benefits in other ways.
And I think the festivals in themselves might be one of those ways.

Sunshine!

[fluffy]

If we don’t formally try to find out what the clinical benefits of drugs like MDMA are (such as ‘it enhances emotional empathy and prosocial behavior’) then we won’t be able to project why people (even inadvertently) are seeking those benefits.
And if we can project why people are seeking those benefits, then we can also project how society might be able to fulfill those benefits in other ways.

Interesting that MDMA, which was developed over a century ago, has yet to find any permanent pharmacological uses. Most of its clinical use to date is better described as "dabbling". Its primary use today is recreational likely because of the symptoms it produces when ingested. I think if you had an answer as to why people like to take a drink now and then you'd be a big step closer to understanding recreational MDMA use.

I'm of the mind that MDMA doesn't produce any sensations that can't be achieved without chemical assistance, it merely makes those sensations more readily available to people who may indulge in mental and physical health habits that don't promote sensitivity to said sensations. This might sound like a social comment on the various stresses and pressures that permeate life in our society today, I guess that's because it is. :)

[Pat-Taporter]

LOL--Yoink!

Thanks to you, fluffy, my revised social comment now is that by simply attending festivals, it might help to, "reduce the various stresses and pressures that permeate life in our society today," by 'bringing down fear and anxiety, and enhancing and actually extending the emotional empathy and prosocial behavior' that people might pick up there.

In other words, over a few days, people might 'naturally' find out how good it feels to take the cork out and be nice and helpful to one another, and then pass that on to others through their daily activities

Also, as far as possible future pharmacological uses for MDMA, I saw this on Global TV a few days ago, and I finally found it on the net.

It includes the 16 X 9 documentary, Healing High, as well as extensive streaming video file on MDMA for PTSD.

It's Canadian, eh!

Global News
Features
April 14, 2016 9:15 am Updated: April 17, 2016 7:47 am
MDMA will be approved to aid therapy for PTSD suffers by 2021: research group

By Annie Burns-Pieper
Producer 16x9

http://globalnews.ca/news/2638489/ecsta ... rch-group/

Interesting how MDMA, "brings down fear and anxiety," and therapy is often accompanied by "music."

Revising the above.

[Pat-Taporter]

correct and people on here seem to think its ok harm reduction tent lol lol lol

Infonews.ca

Mothers of drug victims to carry their children's voices to United Nations

Geordon Omand

April 17, 2016 - 1:00 AM

*bleep*/newsitem/overdose-mothers/cp37116362

. . .

"The war on drugs has been a war on our families," said Lorna Thomas, another mumsDU co-founder from Edmonton.

"The starting point for it, that we were going to punish people out of using drugs has failed. People will continue to use drugs and we need to acknowledge that reality and keep people safe. . . ."

omg omg omg