Response to PIB disappointment to pipeline

[lgdracing]

sorry but the credibility to the newly elected PIB chief is hard to swallow in regards to his argument towards the environmental impact to reserve land by the recent approved pipeline project....no offense but have you taken a drive threw our local band property, there is more vehicles poorly parked and in disrepair leaching all there oils chemicals into the land than a auto wrecking establishment. I am only listing one of the plethora of environmental disaters you see when passing threw the reserve, so my point is clean up your OWN back yard before condemning any pipeline...... just food for thought

[diggermechanic]

you got that right!!

[twobits]

The hypocrisy is only noticed by those that actually pay any attention. The new Chief seems to not realize that the 8.5 million dollar bridge could not have been built without the oil it required to make the concrete, steel, and heavy equipment that was required for the job. Unless perhaps the Band, in their environmental consciousness, demanded all construction inputs be sourced from corn or hemp oil as a condition of tax dollars. Hypocrites just like Suzuki.
The icing of hypocrisy is signing a lease for a new car dealership whose product requires petroleum to build, operate, and roads to run on. Ya, let's talk about credibility. Has anyone seen a "For Lease Sign" at the bridge for green tenants only or are First Nations not practicing what they preach?

[fluffy]

It's clear that we won't be off the burning of fossil fuels anytime time in the short term, and that some further exploitation of Canada's oil reserves is absolutely necessary. It's also a good plan to cultivate customers other than our neighbours to the south as there is a pretty big degree of unpredictability in the stability of that market. I'm not sure what is going on in Chief Eneas's mind with this, I agree that coming out on the national stage ahead of getting his own yard in order sends some questionable signals. If he's going back to the days of the finger-wagging militant that doesn't bode well for band members in general in that it makes outside investors a little nervous at a time when some economic progress has been looking good, and tends to strain local relationships.

[maryjane48]

and that some further exploitation of Canada's oil reserves is absolutely necessary

so if a person is drowning your solution is more water?

[twobits]

That was an asinine response to a very accurate and pragmatic post.

[fluffy]

...so if a person is drowning your solution is more water?

Not at all. Tidewater pipelines will help accomplish two things, it will give us alternative markets to the US as that trade relationship is heavily weighted in unpredictability right now, and second, it will revitalize a lagging economy which will be needed if we seriously want to pour time and money into developing fossil fuel alternatives. That kind of research and investment doesn't come from a struggling private sector, a point which doesn't seem to sink in to people who simply want to cap all the oil wells and shut down the oil sands. It also concerns me that Chief Eneas's first effort at public engagement is one of confrontation. Chief Kruger made some progress in developing trust and sincerity in the PIB's dealings with people outside the band, Chief Eneas gives the impression that he intends to move in a different direction.

[maryjane48]

alright lets say i accept your reasoning , there is still opec to consider as the reason for them cutting output is to make part of a company sell off look better to investers . after that will opec increase production to gain back market share ? and second will the new texas basin be developed at a fast pace since it is easy oil meaning easy to refine compared to heavier crude . it is supposed be bigger than north dakota and oilsands combined .


so really if canada had ten pipelines going to the coast will anything be flowing with just those 2 pressures alone in play?

[twobits]

alright lets say i accept your reasoning , there is still opec to consider as the reason for them cutting output is to make part of a company sell off look better to investers . after that will opec increase production to gain back market share ? and second will the new texas basin be developed at a fast pace since it is easy oil meaning easy to refine compared to heavier crude . it is supposed be bigger than north dakota and oilsands combined .


so really if canada had ten pipelines going to the coast will anything be flowing with just those 2 pressures alone in play?

Opec is not as significant as it was in the 70's. Even they realize the finite asset they are sitting on and it is in their own self interest to not drive prices down via over production. It would be as smart as BC, the breadbasket of valuable softwood lumber in North America, eliminating annual allowable cuts to flood the market with low margin wood to capture market share. The party would be on for two decades but then what?
Second, the Texan Basin oil is fracked oil which is not cheap to extract either. Oil sands oil can compete with it just fine with current tech and demand. If a refinery is built to be able to handle it, as many are, the price differential of raw material makes up for the added cost of refining. That is all the refineries care about as the end product is identical. That is something you are unable to comprehend through the lens of the bottom of a bottle. But of course, you are smarter than the companies willing to invest multi BILLIONS in pipeline infrastructure. Do you actually think they are not aware of the Texan Permian basin and would invest billions if they thought it was any kind of threat to empty pipelines??? Your simplistic and naive rebuttals to Canada's oil industry are nothing short of stunning and equal to the new PIB Chief.

[twobits]

It also concerns me that Chief Eneas's first effort at public engagement is one of confrontation. Chief Kruger made some progress in developing trust and sincerity in the PIB's dealings with people outside the band, Chief Eneas gives the impression that he intends to move in a different direction.

Couldn't agree more. It concerns me that we are moving back to the Chief Phillips era of confrontation.. Not a good sign.

[maryjane48]

bottom of a bottle.

i dont drink , but then again you might think im first nations and you probably think they all drunks .

second i posted article written by canadian economists and it was they who asked is canada making a mistake . third opec is only increasing production to make a investment look better than after that back to gaining market share .

US oil exploration companies have flocked to the superrich Permian Basin in recent years and used shale-drilling technology to create an oil boom that simultaneously helped trigger a price crash two years ago



so really it is still a gamble for canada and pib might have the opinion the money could be better spent elswhere .

[fluffy]

so really it is still a gamble for canada and pib might have the opinion the money could be better spent elswhere .

Another possibility we should consider is that Chief Eneas is taking this stand at the urging of Grand Chief Phillip who has vowed to resist the new pipeline expansions with zeal. Whether that is the case or not, it's still a point of concern that a statement of this nature should be the reason for Chief Eneas's first step into the limelight. I know little of the issues that were in play during the Band election, but I know that Chief Kruger made some significant improvements in the band's position by way of economic progress. How much of the benefits of this progress will end up with the band members in general and how much will end up with various locatee land owners is a big question I don't have an answer for, but I have to wonder if his business focus played a part in his defeat. We've seen how the game of politics has become a lot easier to play with the instant and widespread communication that the internet has blessed us with, and how the standard strategy for a politician to gain office these days is to sow discontent with current leaders to the point where "the people" vote for change without seriously considering what form that change should take. Case in point: the President Elect south of the border. Chief Eneas has offered the well worn refrain of "culture and the environment" as his motivation on more than one occasion, it would be silly not to wonder if they have elected another "warrior" to the chief's chair.

(PS: @maryjane48 - I wanted to continue the discussion we started yesterday about the Comprehensive Wealth Measurement report but can't find it. Did it get moved somewhere?)

[rustled]

(PS: @maryjane48 - I wanted to continue the discussion we started yesterday about the Comprehensive Wealth Measurement report but can't find it. Did it get moved somewhere?)

Try here:
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=70135

It would indeed be disappointing to see the PIB go back to the confrontational-victim model. Let's hope this isn't a harbinger of things to come.

[maryjane48]

yea on that link i answered how i read the report . i was waiting for your take on it fluffy

[XT225]

It would indeed be disappointing to see the PIB go back to the confrontational-victim model. Let's hope this isn't a harbinger of things to come.

There were rumors circulating after the PIB election that Stewart Phillip was behind the new chief's campaign. Stewart has always had a confrontational rather than progressive approach to things; lets hope the new chief doesn't follow suit. It was unfortunate for the band that they didn't re-elect Chief Kruger again; he was finally starting to move the band forward.