Okanagan orchardists suspended by Mexico

[f/22]

Exclusive: Nine Okanagan orchardists suspended from hiring Mexican workers due to poor living conditions

http://globalnews.ca/news/3413087/exclu ... onditions/

Lamento escuchar esto mis amigos.

A couple of studies on the subject:

http://canada.metropolis.net/pdfs/Pgs_CITC_mar10_e.pdf

This article discusses the question of housing for Mexican migrant workers in the Okanagan Valley, British Columbia. It argues that living and working conditions for these workers are framed by a lack of citizenship that in practice denies them rights afforded to other workers in Canada

<snip>

What will they do for workers?

http://mbc.metropolis.net/assets/upload ... P11-04.pdf

<snip>

In the last few decades, as farms have sought a competitive advantage in the global market, many have consolidated into large enterprises, investing in new technology, drastically cutting wages, and increasing the recruitment of foreign migrant workers to cut costs. . ..

<snip>

It might be a while off but might it come to come to this?

http://www.theprovince.com/business/rob ... story.html

But from what I saw in the video for the article on the workers, it sure looks like it might be one humane solution.

Since it looks like the farmers didn't get the 'memo' on their own.

[stuphoto]

They might just have to open up their wallets and actually pay enough to get a Canadian worker

[f/22]

I filled in my OP a bit after reading the two studies (above). Mostly I was curious to see what would happen to the workers since it looks like a season’s employment may have been lost on these farms. And from what I’ve read it looks like some of them could be re-assigned by The Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program (SAWP), but others on this year’s stand-by may have lost their chance for work in Canada. I think this is bad all around for them and the industry here. It looks like the farms were snap-inspected last year, but the farmers were unable to take it as a cue that their might be some problems with their accommodation. I’m hoping to see some follow up news on this situation.

[LANDM]

They might just have to open up their wallets and actually pay enough to get a Canadian worker

Sure.....and those Canadian workers are just waiting to go work on an orchard. Righto.
That ship sailed decades ago.

[stuphoto]

I honestly have no use for any company that imports any workers, when there is a single local looking for a job.
To me it appears that these companies just want slaves, and when they can't even supply decent living quarters it doesn't help them look any better.

Just so you know, my mom actually owns a small orchard in Midway, and she has always had more locals lined up at her door looking for work than she can possibly hire.

[LANDM]

I honestly have no use for any company that imports any workers, when there is a single local looking for a job.
To me it appears that these companies just want slaves, and when they can't even supply decent living quarters it doesn't help them look any better.

Just so you know, my mom actually owns a small orchard in Midway, and she has always had more locals lined up at her door looking for work than she can possibly hire.

That's great that you have no use for it.....you don't have to have a use for it because you aren't in the situation. And, as for your mothers small orchard in Midway, ask her how easy it would be to replicate with hundreds of acres of orchard where you need dozens or hundreds of workers.

It's very easy to take your stance from the comfort and separation of your keyboard, without factoring in the reality of the situation.

[fluffy]

The whole issue over TFWs is beside the point here. If there were enough Canadian workers willing to do the work we wouldn't have to be looking to outside sources. There was a time when the migrant orchard worker supply was bolstered by workers from Quebec, don't quote me on this but I had heard that the Quebec government would pay their way from Quebec to BC. It seems that reservoir has dried up, I'm guessing a change of policy in Quebec did away with the travel subsidy (if it even existed).

The problem here is accommodations. It seems that operations that are running close enough to the line that they need TFWs to remain profitable just don't have the money to provide proper housing. I snickered at the point in the video where someone said that the government inspectors showing up unannounced didn't give the property owners enough time for a little window dressing to give the housing an appearance of acceptability. I've worked in camp settings a few times through my life and the current level of "acceptable" in worker accommodations is light years away from what was evident in the video. A degree of privacy and washroom access is not what is being provided by that operator, the "gang washroom" approach is no longer being licensed for new camps, and old camps configured in that manner are being phased out. That being said, if orchard operators could get their hands on some of the trailers being taken out of service in work camps the accommodations would be far superior to what was shown on the video, recycled mobile homes that were likely bought on the cheap. I understand fully that there will come a point when the cost of accommodating TFWs will outweighs the financial advantage of cheap labour, but there has to be acceptible minimums in the quality of the housing supplied and it certainly looks like the orchardists involved weren't supplying that.

[Jflem1983]

They might just have to open up their wallets and actually pay enough to get a Canadian worker

Sure.....and those Canadian workers are just waiting to go work on an orchard. Righto.
That ship sailed decades ago.

I'd take a job on a farm . If it paid enough to keep my house and my truck . It would be an awesome life for my dogs . I'd do it in an instant . I'm a white Canadian. Unfortunately making 80k a year on someone else's farm is unlikely .

[f/22]

From the material in my OP:

Robots don't need care, feeding, and wages in the human sense. So, soon there may be no work for any labourers on these big farms.

But for now this whole thing might be taken care of if accommodation standards were raised quickly. It appears SAWP might be able to provide JIT (Just in Time) workers from a pool in Mexico.

And on a takeoff from fluffy’s post, I don't give a snowball's chance in hell that this will ever be in the future here, but here’s a bit of entertainment.



And back to my OP material, it seems Canada's workers would rather migrate for the construction industry these days.

LOL I just remembered the Quebec roofing crew I ran into here this spring. We were laughing together over my bad French.

[LANDM]

The whole issue over TFWs is beside the point here. If there were enough Canadian workers willing to do the work we wouldn't have to be looking to outside sources. There was a time when the migrant orchard worker supply was bolstered by workers from Quebec, don't quote me on this but I had heard that the Quebec government would pay their way from Quebec to BC. It seems that reservoir has dried up, I'm guessing a change of policy in Quebec did away with the travel subsidy (if it even existed).

The problem here is accommodations. It seems that operations that are running close enough to the line that they need TFWs to remain profitable just don't have the money to provide proper housing. I snickered at the point in the video where someone said that the government inspectors showing up unannounced didn't give the property owners enough time for a little window dressing to give the housing an appearance of acceptability. I've worked in camp settings a few times through my life and the current level of "acceptable" in worker accommodations is light years away from what was evident in the video. A degree of privacy and washroom access is not what is being provided by that operator, the "gang washroom" approach is no longer being licensed for new camps, and old camps configured in that manner are being phased out. That being said, if orchard operators could get their hands on some of the trailers being taken out of service in work camps the accommodations would be far superior to what was shown on the video, recycled mobile homes that were likely bought on the cheap. I understand fully that there will come a point when the cost of accommodating TFWs will outweighs the financial advantage of cheap labour, but there has to be acceptible minimums in the quality of the housing supplied and it certainly looks like the orchardists involved weren't supplying that.

You are correct, of course. The issue is the accommodations and I don't believe that the operations don't have the money to provide proper housing. They qualified with the appropriate inspections when they commenced the program, which may have been years ago.
However, they *chose* to not maintain the facilities and allow them to detiorate to a point where they were no longer compliant.
This doesn't mean that all orchardists deal with things the same way. I know the largest ones and they all take it very seriously for this very reason......they simply could not afford NOT to have this program in effect.
Just as some people choose to text while driving, or speed, or shoplift, or not pay taxes, these farmers chose to allow their facilities to become substandard. Now they are paying the price.
It's human nature for a percentage of our community to push the boundaries and get caught.

[fluffy]

And back to my OP material, it seems Canada's workers would rather migrate for the construction industry these days.

Like most instances, it all comes down to the bottom line. With regards to the video, keep in mind that just about all the workers you saw there are making six digits. In Suncor's case a huge percentage of the workers commute form other provinces. I saw a number of shots in that video taken in the camp I work in now, and I can guarantee that the accomodations there are luxurious in comparison to what was shown in the orchard video.

By comparison, a Mexican worker coming to Canada to work for wages most of us wouldn't even consider are going home at the end of the season with a bankroll that is pretty much unattainable for them back home. It's all relative in that aspect. But I see no reason to expect them to live in third world conditions while in Canada, that is certainly not the way we treat Canadian workers, and not a message I'd be comfortable sending home with TFWs.

[stuphoto]

I have spent some time in a Suncor camp, and we were all treated pretty good there.
The only better work camp I have seen is at the Ekati diamond mine.

I honestly wouldn't expect any farmer to match their accommodations, however it has to be clean and comfortable.
If the farmer wouldn't let their family live there they can't expect workers to.

[fluffy]

You are correct, of course. The issue is the accommodations and I don't believe that the operations don't have the money to provide proper housing. They qualified with the appropriate inspections when they commenced the program, which may have been years ago.
However, they *chose* to not maintain the facilities and allow them to detiorate to a point where they were no longer compliant.

It would be interesting to know what sparked the snap inspections at the orchards in question. It would be easy to assume that it is a complaint driven system but bear in mind that cases of TFWs being intimidated into silence under threat of being sent home have been in the news as well. A thought that comes to mind is and orchardist passing an initial inspection for housing meant to accommodate 20 workers and then when the papers are signed cramming a few more beds in to pad the profit margin.

[Jflem1983]

Unfortunately there are only a few options . Raise prices and wages . Send the tfw s home . Automate and send the tfw s home . Or do nothing and watch more stories like this pop up . We all know what the problem is

[fluffy]

I honestly wouldn't expect any farmer to match their accommodations, however it has to be clean and comfortable.

Exactly. Suncor can drop a few million to house workers because the profit margin in oil is a little thicker than it is in apples. The issue here is standard of living that the orchard workers are being expected to accept.