Flood risk

Re: Flood risk

Postby Tony » Nov 13th, 2018, 8:07 am

twobits wrote:
smoky500 wrote:I aid I wasn't going to argue with you, but here goes.

Yes, I probably pay less in taxes, but I also do not have fire protection so pay more for fire insurance, I typically wait 2 -3 days for our road to be plowed when there is snow, If I do want to go to the pool I have to drive for 30 min. and it does cost about $7 - 8 for fuel in my fuel efficient vehicle, $12 if I take my truck, if we need an ambulance we wait 20 - 30 min. for it to arrive..... So living in the country is not as economical as some might think.

The RDOS had several reasons for not responding to our situation, one of which was health/safety, and if you recall I said our septic field was flooded and the lake is our water source, I think that would qualify as a health concern.

Everything has a trade off.


I won't even start on how much fuel it takes you to drive to a pool you pay nothing for maintenance, wages, orany other operating costs.....and you get in for free.
Your biggest concern, that your public posts have just shone a very bright light on is that your septic system is polluting a public lake and also a source of drinking water. I am thinking you can expect a notice on your property title from Interior Health that sums that up. Best of luck if you want to sell and so glad you saved a few k in taxes and had a few swims for free.


Since when is the pool free? Everytime I go I have to pay. Everytime I go to a Vees game or and event in SOEC I pay. Everytime I go to a Home Show or other function at the Convention Centre I pay, and I live in the Falls. Do we pay taxes on it? No, but we don't get to vote in Penticton either, but we pay everytime we go to any of the public facilities in Penticton.
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Re: Flood risk

Postby twobits » Nov 13th, 2018, 8:01 pm

Tony wrote:Since when is the pool free? Everytime I go I have to pay. Everytime I go to a Vees game or and event in SOEC I pay. Everytime I go to a Home Show or other function at the Convention Centre I pay, and I live in the Falls. Do we pay taxes on it? No, but we don't get to vote in Penticton either, but we pay everytime we go to any of the public facilities in Penticton.


Oh lordy Tony. My bad for saying free. Should have said "pay the same entrance fee as Penticton Taxpayers to get in" when the Taxpayers pay for the whole capital cost and operating cost of the experience.
I have a strong feeling that this is going to change with the new council and long overdo.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.
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Re: Flood risk

Postby ToddT » Nov 14th, 2018, 11:47 am

The question is, will the locals get a discount, or will the freeloaders pay a surcharge? And how do you manage that without ostracizing people?
Or maybe there are other avenues to impose taxation on those who live in the tax havens of the suburbs lol?
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Re: Flood risk

Postby Tony » Nov 14th, 2018, 4:43 pm

twobits wrote:
Tony wrote:Since when is the pool free? Everytime I go I have to pay. Everytime I go to a Vees game or and event in SOEC I pay. Everytime I go to a Home Show or other function at the Convention Centre I pay, and I live in the Falls. Do we pay taxes on it? No, but we don't get to vote in Penticton either, but we pay everytime we go to any of the public facilities in Penticton.


Oh lordy Tony. My bad for saying free. Should have said "pay the same entrance fee as Penticton Taxpayers to get in" when the Taxpayers pay for the whole capital cost and operating cost of the experience.
I have a strong feeling that this is going to change with the new council and long overdo.


But when I'm in Penticton I shop, I eat and I spend some money, so to use the pool I should be penalized? Does that mean that because I live out of town I should pay more at Walmart or at the theatre? The fact that I don't pay taxes on the pool or SOEC doesn't mean that I should pay more at the door. There are some really great concerts that come to Penticton, and people come from all over the Valley to go. Should they pay more for tickets? That's bizarre. We don't charge you more to come to Tickleberry's to have ice cream, or we don't charge people who want to come and use our beach.
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Re: Flood risk

Postby twobits » Nov 14th, 2018, 8:39 pm

Tony wrote:
But when I'm in Penticton I shop, I eat and I spend some money, so to use the pool I should be penalized? Does that mean that because I live out of town I should pay more at Walmart or at the theatre? The fact that I don't pay taxes on the pool or SOEC doesn't mean that I should pay more at the door.


Damn straight you should pay more. No one has ever suggested you pay more at Walmart or to see a movie. We City taxpayers pay the same price at Walmart and the Theatre as you. Difference being, Walmart and the Movie Theatre do not get subsidized by Penticton taxpayers!!!
I am really confused at how you can even begin to justify your subsidized use of Penticton public facilities by just saying "we shop there so you are benefiting".
Let's expand OK falls to 10k, eastside road to 10k and Kaleden to 10k in the next 20 yrs. They all use the Pool and other public facilities for free still. Think about it man and how that senariois any different from the current load Penticton taxpayers are picking up without any taxation fromyou whatsoever. Your dollars at Walmart or the theatre do not pay anything for the pool, gym, library, Soec............we pay for it. Did you pay one dime towards the loan to build the SOEC and yet the ticket that I purchase has the same price on it as yours. I go for a swim.....pay the same price as you and you paid nothing towards the cost of the facility or one cent towards the cost to heat the water.
But that is somehow OK because you shop in Penticton loke the rest of us?? For all we know you bypass us altogether and drive to Kelowna and Costco.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.
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Re: Flood risk

Postby smoky500 » Nov 15th, 2018, 9:10 am

First comment - this thread started of talking about flooding and lack of action by RDOS AND provincial government, how is it you are complaining about your City taxes and user fees??

Second - charging a higher fee to use those facilities is really going to discourage nonresidents from using them, therefore less people paying anything and less income for them.

Third - if you raise taxes for out lying areas to support the pool, SOEC or anything else, that is also unfair because a lot of those people probably do not even use those facilities.

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Re: Flood risk

Postby seewood » Nov 15th, 2018, 9:24 am

Regarding paying more to use the rec facilities, I hope all the kids from outlying areas pay more for swim lessons, skating, hockey, soccer, dance, lacrosse, swim club etc. As well as others from towns away that use the facilities such as swim meets, soccer and hockey tourneys, Ask for ID at the door.
Penticton has loved to be in the news over the years....

Regarding flood risk. Why is it happening?
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Re: Flood risk

Postby Tony » Nov 15th, 2018, 4:41 pm

twobits wrote:
Tony wrote:
But when I'm in Penticton I shop, I eat and I spend some money, so to use the pool I should be penalized? Does that mean that because I live out of town I should pay more at Walmart or at the theatre? The fact that I don't pay taxes on the pool or SOEC doesn't mean that I should pay more at the door.


Damn straight you should pay more. No one has ever suggested you pay more at Walmart or to see a movie. We City taxpayers pay the same price at Walmart and the Theatre as you. Difference being, Walmart and the Movie Theatre do not get subsidized by Penticton taxpayers!!!
I am really confused at how you can even begin to justify your subsidized use of Penticton public facilities by just saying "we shop there so you are benefiting".
Let's expand OK falls to 10k, eastside road to 10k and Kaleden to 10k in the next 20 yrs. They all use the Pool and other public facilities for free still. Think about it man and how that senariois any different from the current load Penticton taxpayers are picking up without any taxation fromyou whatsoever. Your dollars at Walmart or the theatre do not pay anything for the pool, gym, library, Soec............we pay for it. Did you pay one dime towards the loan to build the SOEC and yet the ticket that I purchase has the same price on it as yours. I go for a swim.....pay the same price as you and you paid nothing towards the cost of the facility or one cent towards the cost to heat the water.
But that is somehow OK because you shop in Penticton loke the rest of us?? For all we know you bypass us altogether and drive to Kelowna and Costco.


Okay... I'll take the retail factor out of it. I drive on the roads that your taxes paid for. Should there be a toll on them? Why don't you just put a sign out as people enter town to say "Go Away - we don't want your money"?

Good grief. I pay for my tickets - that money goes to help pay for the facility. Do I pay it in my taxes? Nope, but then I don't live in Penticton. If I did (and I used to) I would welcome people with open arms to use the beautiful facilities. And just so you know, my dollars spent at stores or theatres translate to tax dollars as those businesses pay taxes, and a portion of my dollar goes there. They also employ local people, and a portion of my dollar goes to their wages. I do some shopping in Kelowna, and with an attitude like yours, to be honest, I might do more shopping in Kelowna. Just imagine, if you will, if all the people from outside of Penticton drove through and went to Kelowna. Imagine the decrease in revenue coming to town. Imagine the number of people that would get laid off, have to sell their houses and move, and never come back and spend any money in town. Your vision is very myopic that just because somebody lives outside of your borders they should pay more for using a public facility. I guess you want me to pay to use the beach, park on Main Street, walk down the sidewalks or do anything else your tax dollars paid for? Maybe next time you go to Kelowna to a Rockets game, go to Vancouver to a Canucks game they should charge you an upcharge. Those facilities were all paid for by the local taxes. THAT'S HOW MUNICIPALITIES WORK. If you don't like paying taxes for those conveniences move out of town. Do I have to pay more to use the Hospital? It's paid for by tax dollars. Maybe you'd like to go Festival of the Grape in Oliver and the Grape Stomp. They could charge you extra because it's in a City Park.

Your attitude on this matter totally sucks.
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Re: Flood risk

Postby seewood » Nov 15th, 2018, 4:53 pm

OK, seems to be morphing into a different topic BUT..... a couple of things come to mind, Penticton could lower the amount paid to the RDOS every year to help cover the maintenance costs on the rec centers.
Call it even as I know of one RDOS fire department that is training Penticton residents to career department standards on that jurisdictions dime. Perhaps other departments have the same?
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Re: Flood risk

Postby twobits » Nov 15th, 2018, 7:09 pm

smoky500 wrote:
Second - charging a higher fee to use those facilities is really going to discourage nonresidents from using them, therefore less people paying anything and less income for them.


Or one could argue that that if the population outside of the immediate trading area of Penticton, basically Naramata to Osyoos, could not use the community center without any extra charges.......Penticton taxpayers would only need to fund a facility half of it's current size.
For lords sake, what is it about you RDOS outliers that cannot comprehend you are getting a free ride on major facilities that you all use without any contribution. And sorry, but no, shopping at Walmart, does not cut it. Those dollars in profit go to Arkansas, not my budget, or a dime to heat the friking water. Your a leach and can't even understand why.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.
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Re: Flood risk

Postby Tony » Nov 16th, 2018, 6:40 am

twobits wrote:
smoky500 wrote:
Second - charging a higher fee to use those facilities is really going to discourage nonresidents from using them, therefore less people paying anything and less income for them.


Or one could argue that that if the population outside of the immediate trading area of Penticton, basically Naramata to Osyoos, could not use the community center without any extra charges.......Penticton taxpayers would only need to fund a facility half of it's current size.
For lords sake, what is it about you RDOS outliers that cannot comprehend you are getting a free ride on major facilities that you all use without any contribution. And sorry, but no, shopping at Walmart, does not cut it. Those dollars in profit go to Arkansas, not my budget, or a dime to heat the friking water. Your a leach and can't even understand why.


So you believe that Walmart pays NO taxes in Penticton? How about the Casino - it's owned by a Corporation based out of Penticton, or Superstore - their head office is in Ontario. If I pay $10 to use the pool, I'm going to hazard a guess that $0.10 goes to heating and maintenance. That's how businesses work. If you are so worked up about this, move from the City. The name of the facility is SOUTH OKANAGAN Events Centre - not PENTICTON ONLY Events Centre. True, it's a COMMUNITY pool, but that doesn't mean that ONLY the community can use it. I travel for work a fair bit. When I'm in a different Town, sometimes I go the their pool to swim. I've never been charged a surcharge because I don't live in the community. The fact that you think Council will change this just confirms that on this topic, you are delusional.
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Re: Flood risk

Postby Anonymous123 » Nov 16th, 2018, 8:34 am

smoky500 wrote:First comment - this thread started of talking about flooding and lack of action by RDOS AND provincial government, how is it you are complaining about your City taxes and user fees??

Second - charging a higher fee to use those facilities is really going to discourage nonresidents from using them, therefore less people paying anything and less income for them.

Third - if you raise taxes for out lying areas to support the pool, SOEC or anything else, that is also unfair because a lot of those people probably do not even use those facilities.


I pay school taxes every year and haven't had a kid in school for the last 15 years. Is that fair?
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Re: Flood risk

Postby Tony » Nov 16th, 2018, 10:17 am

Anonymous123 wrote:
smoky500 wrote:First comment - this thread started of talking about flooding and lack of action by RDOS AND provincial government, how is it you are complaining about your City taxes and user fees??

Second - charging a higher fee to use those facilities is really going to discourage nonresidents from using them, therefore less people paying anything and less income for them.

Third - if you raise taxes for out lying areas to support the pool, SOEC or anything else, that is also unfair because a lot of those people probably do not even use those facilities.


I pay school taxes every year and haven't had a kid in school for the last 15 years. Is that fair?


I don't have kids and have to pay school taxes, but that's part of living in a community, and I'm okay with that. OK Falls kids get bused to Oliver, or some transport themselves to Penticton. According to twobits, they should probably pay more for using the schools in those districts.

If memory serves me, the Province ponied up on SOEC, so some of my tax dollars did go into it.
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Re: Flood risk

Postby seewood » Nov 16th, 2018, 5:59 pm

Tony wrote:If memory serves me, the Province ponied up on SOEC, so some of my tax dollars did go into it.


And federal dollars. So yes tax revenue from all 3 levels went into the capital cost.
Thing is it costs money to run the facility.
Simple thing really is to go to other jurisdictions and see how they deal with it. Nanaimo has two pools and areas north and south don't. Duncan, the same.
Last edited by ferri on Nov 16th, 2018, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flood risk

Postby Tony » Nov 17th, 2018, 6:46 am

seewood wrote:
Tony wrote:If memory serves me, the Province ponied up on SOEC, so some of my tax dollars did go into it.


And federal dollars. So yes tax revenue from all 3 levels went into the capital cost.
Thing is it costs money to run the facility.
Simple thing really is to go to other jurisdictions and see how they deal with it. Nanaimo has two pools and areas north and south don't. Duncan, the same.


So does Naniamo charge extra for people not from the area, or does Duncan do that? I highly doubt it. I understand it costs to operate the facility, no matter what it is. What I'm saying is just because I live out of town, doesn't mean that my dollars aren't going to pay for the upkeep and operation of the facility. I have no idea how many people from Summerland, Kaleden, Princeton, OK Falls, Oliver or Osoyoos or where ever, especially in the height of tourist season, come to use the pool or SOEC or whatever other public facility, but if you take their ticket sales out of the formula, then your taxes will have to be increased by that amount to compensate for the lost revenue. That's how business works. If Penticton decided to start charging extra for "out of towners", I can almost promise you that would sour many people the attendance would decline dramatically. The thought that the City would do that is unimaginable.
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