Okanagan Police Force

Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby my5cents » Nov 18th, 2018, 10:58 am

Typical selection of over simplification from some “we need more boots on the ground….. there are too many speed traps those cops should be catching criminals…….the RCMP has the best training in the world…….”

Perception plus assumption doesn’t equal fact.

I’m not going to get into, and as a result go off topic, who has the best training in the world, or even how the Justice Institute of BC compares to Regina.

The deployment of resources, and the amount of resources is the great variable.

You could have the world’s best trained anything, and then improperly deploy that person and realize poor results.

Which of these scenarios do you think would be best to resolve a Break and Enter epidemic (for example)

Constant : You have a medium sized city with a population of just over 100,000

When a B&E is discovered a patrol car (RCMP call the unit “General Duty”) is dispatched. The member, or generally in the case of a municipal force, the members obtain the details of the incident from the reportee, they speak with nearby neighbors, obtaining information for the investigation. If there is any physical evidence a request is made for the Identification Section to attend. A case number is obtained and provided to the reportee, for the reportee to supply any supplemental information, such as a list of property stolen etc.

This is where the RCMP and a municipal force part, procedural ways……

The RCMP member retains the responsibility for the investigation. Any follow-up is that member’s responsibility. This file forms part of this members stack of investigations.

The municipal police officer(s) submits their investigation report to their department’s Burglary Squad and that ends their direct involvement in this B&E, their responsibility is that of a “Primary Investigator", they don’t retain any investigations. They report their primary investigation to specialty squads and are available for other calls, including life and death situations.

For the municipal force, the investigation and any follow-up is now the responsibility of the Burglary Squad. That’s all they do, is burglaries. They have an overall view of all the burglaries in the city, they track the MO (modus operandi) of each burglar. (the trademarks of each crook)
They track known suspects, they liaise with the Second Hand Detail (the squad that tracks pawn shop transactions, looking for stolen property)

When a suspect is located they work towards linking this suspect to other B&Es.

My information may be dated, buy you get the idea.

So which scenario do you think works best in a medium sized city ?

For some reason most policing stats have a significant lag time, but generally speaking….
In the US they categorize cities, under or over 25,000 population. On average cities over 25,000 cities employ about 170 per 100,000. Large cities generally have more per 100,000

In Canada in 2016 –
Montreal – 229 per 100,000
Toronto – 190 per 100,000
Vancouver – 196 per 100,000

(From 2012) In BC jurisdiction with a population of over 100,000 (per 100,000)

Municipal Police Forces

Abbotsford – 156
Delta – 149
Saanich – 130
Vancouver – 202
Victoria – 229

RCMP
Burnaby – 128
Coquitlam – 114
Kelowna – 127
Langley – 119
Richmond – 114
Surrey – 137

Yes there are many other variables, some cities are central hubs where residents from surrounding towns gather for major events and night life. Some are tourist hubs who’s population expands greatly in certain periods of the year.
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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby twobits » Nov 18th, 2018, 5:50 pm

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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby Catsumi » Nov 18th, 2018, 6:46 pm

^^^^


So now the B&E artists have your social insurance number too??
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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby Drip_Torch » Nov 18th, 2018, 11:04 pm

my5cents wrote:Typical selection of over simplification from some “we need more boots on the ground….. there are too many speed traps those cops should be catching criminals…….the RCMP has the best training in the world…….”

Perception plus assumption doesn’t equal fact.

I’m not going to get into, and as a result go off topic, who has the best training in the world, or even how the Justice Institute of BC compares to Regina.

The deployment of resources, and the amount of resources is the great variable.

You could have the world’s best trained anything, and then improperly deploy that person and realize poor results.

Which of these scenarios do you think would be best to resolve a Break and Enter epidemic (for example)

Constant : You have a medium sized city with a population of just over 100,000

When a B&E is discovered a patrol car (RCMP call the unit “General Duty”) is dispatched. The member, or generally in the case of a municipal force, the members obtain the details of the incident from the reportee, they speak with nearby neighbors, obtaining information for the investigation. If there is any physical evidence a request is made for the Identification Section to attend. A case number is obtained and provided to the reportee, for the reportee to supply any supplemental information, such as a list of property stolen etc.

This is where the RCMP and a municipal force part, procedural ways……

The RCMP member retains the responsibility for the investigation. Any follow-up is that member’s responsibility. This file forms part of this members stack of investigations.

The municipal police officer(s) submits their investigation report to their department’s Burglary Squad and that ends their direct involvement in this B&E, their responsibility is that of a “Primary Investigator", they don’t retain any investigations. They report their primary investigation to specialty squads and are available for other calls, including life and death situations.

For the municipal force, the investigation and any follow-up is now the responsibility of the Burglary Squad. That’s all they do, is burglaries. They have an overall view of all the burglaries in the city, they track the MO (modus operandi) of each burglar. (the trademarks of each crook)
They track known suspects, they liaise with the Second Hand Detail (the squad that tracks pawn shop transactions, looking for stolen property)

When a suspect is located they work towards linking this suspect to other B&Es.

My information may be dated, buy you get the idea.

So which scenario do you think works best in a medium sized city ?

For some reason most policing stats have a significant lag time, but generally speaking….
In the US they categorize cities, under or over 25,000 population. On average cities over 25,000 cities employ about 170 per 100,000. Large cities generally have more per 100,000

In Canada in 2016 –
Montreal – 229 per 100,000
Toronto – 190 per 100,000
Vancouver – 196 per 100,000

(From 2012) In BC jurisdiction with a population of over 100,000 (per 100,000)

Municipal Police Forces

Abbotsford – 156
Delta – 149
Saanich – 130
Vancouver – 202
Victoria – 229

RCMP
Burnaby – 128
Coquitlam – 114
Kelowna – 127
Langley – 119
Richmond – 114
Surrey – 137

Yes there are many other variables, some cities are central hubs where residents from surrounding towns gather for major events and night life. Some are tourist hubs who’s population expands greatly in certain periods of the year.


So basically, municipal forces have more officers per 100,000 available to respond to calls. I don't know much about it, but I'm going to assume that's a good thing.
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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby Jflem1983 » Nov 18th, 2018, 11:06 pm

Ya i love government waste. Lets have more meter maids too
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby Ken7 » Nov 19th, 2018, 7:43 am

southy wrote:Some more information regarding municipal force: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/just ... /municipal

I also find it interesting that in Nelson for example, they have city police within the city, yet there is also an Regional RCMP office within the city that handles the surrounding areas. Not sure to what extent the regional district would be involved in funding or if it is provincial/federal.


That is very common.

Coming from a Police Force Municipal, you require a RCMP contract for all the small outpost. As a example Kelowna if the had a municipal Department, the RCMP might still hold contracts for West Kelowna, Peachland etc.

The cost used to be covered by the Federal Governments. Years ago the shift began and towns ( under 5 K ) in Saskatchewan to assume higher percentages of the costs. It was becoming very expensive and likely the same holds in the Province of BC.
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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby Ken7 » Nov 19th, 2018, 7:49 am

Tony wrote:

Leave it to the RCMP. They are the best trained police force in the world. I know this because my niece is a member and countries from all over the world send their police in to train with the RCMP.


This comment made me laugh, "Best trained police force" apparently you have never attended the Canadian Police College. Where Municipal and RCMP do attend for specialized training.

Do you know what GRC stands for, in Saskatchewan we referenced them as Gravel Road Cops. I just had a good laugh on your behalf, thanks!!
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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby Ken7 » Nov 19th, 2018, 7:56 am

Tony wrote:
twobits wrote:I, for one and in my opinion, am exceptionally proud of the RCMP. OUR budget isn't paying for members to stay home. That comes from a portion of our tax base, true, but we'd be paying that no matter what police force we have. Bear in mind, that the cost of the RCMP is divided across the 31 million people we have in Canada. Bringing in a Municipal Police Force would cost millions, and this thread is about an Okanagan Force, which gets so much more convoluted. The ONLY way we get more boots on the ground is to hire more officers, be them Federal, Provincial or Municipal, that's just logical. How else would you get them? Our Income Tax would not decrease because we are using local police, but our property taxes would. I just had a discussion on a forum with you about having to pay more to use the pool because I live outside of Penticton. Wouldn't this end up being the same? Kelowna would pay more because they have a bigger population, so would they get more police time than Penticton?


Where are you getting your information from it is incorrect.

A member who is on leave due to illness, real, other or administrative leave, is still being paid by the City who contracts them.

The RCMP are paid by the City Taxpayers, I do not know the split but it is a large majority. Years ago, the Municipality paid like 33% of total cost. That is history, just like the North West Mounted Police. It is almost totally paid now, although I do not have the percentage.

Someone is filling you with a lot of misinformation which you are spreading here.
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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby Ken7 » Nov 19th, 2018, 8:12 am

one wheel wrote:In a comment in forum from - Tony he says, countries from all over the world send their police to train with the RCMP ?
So does the Canadian Government receive money from those countries for training these people ?

I wonder what the truth is when I read that several communities in the Okanagan Valley are operating with below recommended levels of policing & it's been that way for some time ?

Are there actually RCMP officers trained & ready to fill these positions such as in West Kelowna or is the real problem with funding or is it a shortage of people that can qualify or want the job of working for the RCMP anymore ?

Has our Government found that training police from other countries to be a profitable program & doesn't worry about Canada anymore ?
I wouldn't want to be a police officer working in either a Okanagan Force or the RCMP with our current revolving door system of justice as we have now. Haul 'em in but you have to let 'em go, what a concept.


I have been on courses where members from Germany and other areas have attended. In some cases they are not Police but will learn the course.

Develop a training program and then they will turn it over to the Policer in their Municipality. The RCMP or Canadian Police college will charge a fee.

Don't get this wrong, you a civilian or myself now just can not show up saying, I'd like to become a Breathalyzer Tech, or a Drug Tech.

When you look at policing levels, yes this is very possible. Look at all the different types of leave, sick ( real or other ), mat leave, Administrative suspension, the list goes on. A shift may normally have a number, and due to the list I provide they may run short. That additional work piles up on those who work. I do not know the number today, I can say year back a Aunt of mine dispatched for Kelowna RCMP. One night she had two patrol members for Kelowna, I laughed at that.

As the revolving justice, it is no different here, in Regina, in Dallas, Detroit or any where else. Policing is policing, courts are all bunged up with over stacking as are jails. It is not specific to Kelowna.
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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby my5cents » Nov 19th, 2018, 10:01 am

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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby Catsumi » Nov 19th, 2018, 11:51 am

Catsumi wrote:^^^^


So now the B&E artists have your social insurance number too??



It is extremely unwise to put your SIN on tools, which in this case have been stolen. Those tools will be scattered to the four winds complete with a viable, valuable identifier attached. They even have your address and name. Thieves can sell those numbers to anyone who can make good use of your SIN, including applying for credit cards, renting cars, running up bills which will be your responsibility.

Personally, I would be pooping bricks about the SIN with no angst left over for the tools.

https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topic ... ce-number/
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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby twobits » Nov 19th, 2018, 7:05 pm

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Nov 21st, 2018, 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Try again without the personal attacks.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby Catsumi » Nov 19th, 2018, 7:11 pm

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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby twobits » Nov 20th, 2018, 5:04 pm

*removed*
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Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Re: Okanagan Police Force

Postby Catsumi » Nov 20th, 2018, 6:56 pm

*removed*
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