Bike lane for Penticton

[spooker]

Too lazy to look but I thought it was the city kicking in one million $ and the other 7-8 mil was grants.

From what I've read it looks like the initial $2.3MM has been released for the current sections under construction and $1MM of that comes from the provincial grant that was announced previously ... the rest of the monies have not been released yet ... I'd expect they are hoping to get an award from the new provincial push that was announced a couple of weeks ago with $36MM or the federal ICIP fund with $413MM in it ...

[XT225]

Too lazy to look but I thought it was the city kicking in one million $ and the other 7-8 mil was grants.

From what I've read it looks like the initial $2.3MM has been released for the current sections under construction and $1MM of that comes from the provincial grant that was announced previously ... the rest of the monies have not been released yet ... I'd expect they are hoping to get an award from the new provincial push that was announced a couple of weeks ago with $36MM or the federal ICIP fund with $413MM in it ...

I like that....."they are hoping"; in other words the City has no clue where the money is going to come from; if the Feds or Province doesn't come through, then the project should be stopped for now, until they HAVE the money in hand. Lets face it; with all the fires in the province right now, perhaps money would be better spent on something that we actually need... Help; not bike lanes that very few will benefit from. Good god; thats like doing a major home renovation and "hoping" that the bank manager will be kind enough to lend you the money, but you have already started it. The whole thing was flawed from the beginning; that should be very evident even to those who have their heads buried in the sand.

[BC Landlord]

... I'd expect they are hoping to get an award from the new provincial push that was announced a couple of weeks ago with $36MM or the federal ICIP fund with $413MM in it ...

And I was hoping to win the last week's Lotto Max, but I didn't go out to buy myself a new Ferrari, ahead of the draw .. Oops, sorry for the blasphemy, ... It would have been Tesla.

[BC Landlord]

Lets face it; with all the fires in the province right now, perhaps money would be better spent on something that we actually need...

But, ... can't you see all these fires are burning because people (especially seniors) are not riding bicycles enough?

[spooker]

I like that....."they are hoping"; in other words the City has no clue where the money is going to come from; if the Feds or Province doesn't come through, then the project should be stopped for now, until they HAVE the money in hand. Lets face it; with all the fires in the province right now, perhaps money would be better spent on something that we actually need... Help; not bike lanes that very few will benefit from. Good god; thats like doing a major home renovation and "hoping" that the bank manager will be kind enough to lend you the money, but you have already started it. The whole thing was flawed from the beginning; that should be very evident even to those who have their heads buried in the sand.

"Beating a dead horse" comes to mind ... numerous times it's been shown that when you build safe separated cycling infrastructure that more people will use bicycles ... and when you get more cyclists out there along with associated foot traffic then everyone on the roads is safer ... so I'd say that city hall is counting on the populace being human just like everyone else and not some weird anomalous group who are too stubborn and just want to keep dealing with more and more car traffic ...

They know they need to make these changes ... and they'll either fund it directly with city monies (possibly slower) or by buttressing city money with grants from the provincial or federal level (moving faster) ... when I started getting to know the internal workings of municipal government it didn't make the sense my internal logic wanted but after banging my head against the system for over a decade I consider myself more reasonable about my expectations ...

[XT225]

I like that....."they are hoping"; in other words the City has no clue where the money is going to come from; if the Feds or Province doesn't come through, then the project should be stopped for now, until they HAVE the money in hand. Lets face it; with all the fires in the province right now, perhaps money would be better spent on something that we actually need... Help; not bike lanes that very few will benefit from. Good god; thats like doing a major home renovation and "hoping" that the bank manager will be kind enough to lend you the money, but you have already started it. The whole thing was flawed from the beginning; that should be very evident even to those who have their heads buried in the sand.

"Beating a dead horse" comes to mind ... numerous times it's been shown that when you build safe separated cycling infrastructure that more people will use bicycles ... and when you get more cyclists out there along with associated foot traffic then everyone on the roads is safer ... so I'd say that city hall is counting on the populace being human just like everyone else and not some weird anomalous group who are too stubborn and just want to keep dealing with more and more car traffic ...

I would say its you who is beating the dead horse. The City knew full well that if this ever went to a proper Referendum, it would have failed miserably. Many tri-athelte type cycilsts have already said that they have no interest in this route; they use less busy routes already in place and anyone who realistically thinks that the general population will ride their bikes downtown, leave them out of view (locked or not) and shop and spend money in the stores, is truly dreaming. The businesses down that way are and will suffer, not only with this fiasco but also with the new paid parking all over downtown. Double whammy error by the City.

[spooker]

"Beating a dead horse" comes to mind ... numerous times it's been shown that when you build safe separated cycling infrastructure that more people will use bicycles ... and when you get more cyclists out there along with associated foot traffic then everyone on the roads is safer ... so I'd say that city hall is counting on the populace being human just like everyone else and not some weird anomalous group who are too stubborn and just want to keep dealing with more and more car traffic ...

I would say its you who is beating the dead horse. The City knew full well that if this ever went to a proper Referendum, it would have failed miserably. Many tri-athelte type cycilsts have already said that they have no interest in this route; they use less busy routes already in place and anyone who realistically thinks that the general population will ride their bikes downtown, leave them out of view (locked or not) and shop and spend money in the stores, is truly dreaming. The businesses down that way are and will suffer, not only with this fiasco but also with the new paid parking all over downtown. Double whammy error by the City.

Basically the side that has data showing how separated infrastructure can influence the rate of cycling is wrong ... those of us who've said "this is not being built for riders wearing spandex" which you've just confirmed are still wrong ... nope, can't see the logic of all that but I'm willing to move onto a new point in the topic ...

[BC Landlord]

The City knew full well that if this ever went to a proper Referendum, it would have failed miserably.

And this is exactly one of those contentious issues involving huge costs with questionable merits what referenda are made for. It turns out the city pretty much knew what the outcome would be, but didn't like it. That's ugly.

[XT225]

The City knew full well that if this ever went to a proper Referendum, it would have failed miserably.

And this is exactly one of those contentious issues involving huge costs with questionable merits what referenda are made for. It turns out the city pretty much knew what the outcome would be, but didn't like it. That's ugly.

No, instead the city did some haywire/mickey mouse survey that only a few people would ever fill out. Instead, they put the Marina issue on the ballot; a far less costly project. Everyone knows (though a few still won't admit it) that it would have failed miserably had it gone to Referendum. Even the design (those ridiculous) railings vs curbs should have gone to the public question. I would have thought that some of the councillors would be somewhat conservative in their spending habits; boy were we wrong.

[seewood]

Too lazy to look but I thought it was the city kicking in one million $ and the other 7-8 mil was grants.

Nope, the total opposite. The Provincial grant was 1 million and the city (and us poor taxpayers) have to come up with the rest. Its money that we do not have. (of course all the taxpayers in BC pay for that 1 million, including us); nothing is free.

Correctamundo: From Castanet October last year-- "The estimated cost for the project is $8,069,000, a price tag that staff have noted has a 25 per cent contingency included. The City has applied for a grant under the Community Economic Recovery Infrastructure Program which, if approved, could provide up to $1 million in funds towards the project."

Dyslexia strikes again, my bad..

[XT225]

Now here is an example of a smart City Council (White Rock). They allowed Restaurant patios on Marine Drive to take up one lane during the pandemic but that is going to end right after the August long Weekend as many businesses are suffering. People can't find parking (for vehicles). Penticton City Council should have revoked the patio space for the two restaurants in the 200 block of Martin and kept two lanes for traffic.

https://www.abbynews.com/news/white-roc ... y-traffic/

[spooker]

Now here is an example of a smart City Council (White Rock). They allowed Restaurant patios on Marine Drive to take up one lane during the pandemic but that is going to end right after the August long Weekend as many businesses are suffering. People can't find parking (for vehicles). Penticton City Council should have revoked the patio space for the two restaurants in the 200 block of Martin and kept two lanes for traffic.

https://www.abbynews.com/news/white-roc ... y-traffic/

The word "parking" was mentioned once in the whole article and the context said nothing about people having issues with it ... especially since it was attributed to a person who wanted to continue the project ...

She told council it would be “premature” to end the project now, and instead encouraged improvements to the permitting process, parking and communication with the public.

The majority of the issues seem to arise from the fact that they had made that strip one-way and people were finding it difficult to get around, with one side (West Beach) benefitting while the other was not seeing the same ...

Of those who dialed in this week, the majority – six of nine – urged council to let the one-way project continue, naming increased sales, an improved “vibe” on the waterfront and an ability to re-hire staff that had been laid off as among benefits realized so far.

So really it seems to be more a failure of the one-way rather than taking away a lane of traffic ... which there are numerous issues with one-way streets as it really causes problems for people who aren't familiar with an area ...

Ocean Beach owner Antonio Veltri said while he was initially in favour of the one-way, the direction of it has “basically killed the main artery coming into White Rock.”

[edited to remove snark]

[XT225]

Now here is an example of a smart City Council (White Rock). They allowed Restaurant patios on Marine Drive to take up one lane during the pandemic but that is going to end right after the August long Weekend as many businesses are suffering. People can't find parking (for vehicles). Penticton City Council should have revoked the patio space for the two restaurants in the 200 block of Martin and kept two lanes for traffic.

https://www.abbynews.com/news/white-roc ... y-traffic/

The word "parking" was mentioned once in the whole article and the context said nothing about people having issues with it ... especially since it was attributed to a person who wanted to continue the project ...

She told council it would be “premature” to end the project now, and instead encouraged improvements to the permitting process, parking and communication with the public.

The majority of the issues seem to arise from the fact that they had made that strip one-way and people were finding it difficult to get around, with one side (West Beach) benefitting while the other was not seeing the same ...

Of those who dialed in this week, the majority – six of nine – urged council to let the one-way project continue, naming increased sales, an improved “vibe” on the waterfront and an ability to re-hire staff that had been laid off as among benefits realized so far.

So really it seems to be more a failure of the one-way rather than taking away a lane of traffic ... which there are numerous issues with one-way streets as it really causes problems for people who aren't familiar with an area ...

Ocean Beach owner Antonio Veltri said while he was initially in favour of the one-way, the direction of it has “basically killed the main artery coming into White Rock.”

I'm going to have to say that you were a bit too quick to try and capitalize on this as a reasonable comparison to the situation here ...

And I would have to say that you were too quick to not want to compare White Rock to 200 Martin; its quite comparable. Put the two lanes back in or parking on both sides, get rid of the two patios and everyone would be a lot happier.

[Nooby]

So:

Join us to open the first sections of the Lake-to-Lake Route on August 1

The City is planning an official opening event for the first sections of the lake-to-lake bike route on Aug. 1 between 9 am and 12 pm. Residents are invited to come to the intersection of Lakeshore Drive and Martin St. at 9 am for a ribbon cutting, participate in a community ride along the route to the library and back, and then attend the Pedal Penticton Expo at Gyro Park.

Think we should all go?

[southy]

So:

Join us to open the first sections of the Lake-to-Lake Route on August 1

The City is planning an official opening event for the first sections of the lake-to-lake bike route on Aug. 1 between 9 am and 12 pm. Residents are invited to come to the intersection of Lakeshore Drive and Martin St. at 9 am for a ribbon cutting, participate in a community ride along the route to the library and back, and then attend the Pedal Penticton Expo at Gyro Park.

Think we should all go?

Yup .. we should all go …. As far away from this financial disaster as possible.