Naramata Bench Housing proposal

[twobits]

I am surprised.....and a bit disappointed that this has not been a topic of conversation on this thread.

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#320114

If the artist rendering of what the project will look like is even a fraction of close to end product reality.....it is an absolute abortion to the landscape and views cape. This piece of crappola design to maximize lakeview and per square foot land footprint minimization of cost is shameful.
Entering Penticton from the north, if this travesty is allowed to proceed, will be ten times more visually prominent than the historical "Penticton" sign on Munson Mountain.
This cross slope linear design on that site aspect and slope will be a scar on the bench landscape that will be visible from Hwy 97 coming south to Penticton.......the disturbed slope and soil retaining structures between ascending roadways across the slope will be visible and so contrary to well entrenched norms of minimizing visual impacts from such massive earth moving projects. To me and IMO, this project is akin to a logging company that wants to log off a chunk of land that has valuable timber on it. If there were valuable timber on this land, they would never get a clear cut logging permit for the sole reason of it being a scar on the landscape visible for many miles.
This is just frikken wrong and given the stellar performance of Canadian Horizons in their performance (and failure) of water mains and runoff from their last Sendero Canyon project in the Upper Columbia area of Penticton.....people need to pay attention.
FYI, the Canadian Horizons project in their Upper Columbia Ave development Sendaro Canyon sustained failed large diameter water main that caused massive washouts for downstream lands. It was litigated in court for a few years before it could actually proceed and required a multimillion dollar replacement of infrastructure.

[BC Landlord]

There is absolutely no way of accommodating something like this, without twinning the Naramata Rd. Is that within the scope as well?

[seewood]

There is absolutely no way of accommodating something like this, without twinning the Naramata Rd. Is that within the scope as well?

Nope. Talked to a traffic consultant last year and he mentioned a plan of a round-a-bout on Naramata road to get traffic up to the development. Access is across from Little Engine Wine, 880? Naramata Road. They don't want customers driving up past the dump on Spillar Road.
Traffic is pretty much gridlock as it is in the summer months with wine tasting processions to the 30+ wineries along Naramata Road, this includes up Vancouver hill and Haven Hill access roads. Looks like Naramata has several developments going on above the KVR, increasing traffic.
RDOS recommended a 500 meter buffer from the dump but the city said 300 meters is fine.
Who is going to deal with the complaints when south winds blow the stench from the dump up past the houses? RDOS or the City?
Does Penticton have the sewer and water infrastructure/supply to deal with another 300 homes? A report from Penticton engineering department would answer that.
As job opportunities are minimal to say the least in Penticton, I suspect they will be targeting retirees, perhaps why they are not large opulent houses but cookie cutter bungalows. Looks like it anyway.
In my opinion, being close to the dump, the site is just not realistic for a high density real estate development. Let alone the traffic woes.

[twobits]

As job opportunities are minimal to say the least in Penticton, I suspect they will be targeting retirees, perhaps why they are not large opulent houses but cookie cutter bungalows. Looks like it anyway.
In my opinion, being close to the dump, the site is just not realistic for a high density real estate development. Let alone the traffic woes.

The job opportunities for this development will be the same as Canadian Horizons Senderdo Canyon development in Upper Columbia. 90% were from Kelowna for infrastructure except Cantex for road paving. It is a joke that these multi million dollar cookie cutter developments create huge local employment. Even once homes were actually able to be built on this engineering failure, most if not all of the homes had even the shingles on the roof placed by a Kelowna Company.
So please folks, understand this type of move into our town by corporate machines seeking investors for big returns on investment provides massive local employment. They just don't. Maybe Kelowna, but not here. Google Canadian Horizons own website. They are actively lobbying for money with returns that I have not seen that include any kind of preference for local contractors or materials suppliers.

[Atlanta Falcons]

You may need to check your facts on the 90%.Do you think all of the concrete came from Kelowna. Just ask Rona or Home Hardware as supplier of building materials. All of the HVAC was installed by Fehlings Sheet Metal from Penticton. Plus many other local suppliers from Penticton.

[twobits]

You may need to check your facts on the 90%.Do you think all of the concrete came from Kelowna. Just ask Rona or Home Hardware as supplier of building materials. All of the HVAC was installed by Fehlings Sheet Metal from Penticton. Plus many other local suppliers from Penticton.

I will stand by my 10% estimate. The materials portion of what you speak of was chump change compared to the total value. And there is no way in hades that Fehlings did all of the HVAC work. That is actually funny. I would like to see Dale come up with the invoice numbers that support that.
I have been around long enough and know dozens of local trades to know that the most predominant telephone exchange prefixes on the sides of the trucks were from Kelowna. From engineering, to site servicing, to the even landscapers,....diddly for Penticton businesses.
You are correct about the wood, concrete,....and as I said the asphalt.......all and only bulky goods that had to be supplied locally. Except for all of the aggregate and crushed gravel for roads etc. Even the locals could not compete with that. Kelowna company came in with crushers and screens to make the products required right on site. But that in the grand scheme of the whole development, bulk was chump change with little if any value added labour. Engineered roof trusses? Roofing? Kitchens? Siding? Flooring? Plumbing? Electrical?..........Go ahead and name all the local Penticton trades that got more than a token few homes out of near 300??

[theseeker]

I agree with you Twobits, as a retired "Licensed' gas fitter, from the Coast. We don't have the quantity of licensed journeymen required for such a huge job, but we will have crews working there. But to get back to the O.P., I believe that in years to come, not mine [74] or your life time. There of course will be in time, hopefully beautiful structures on the whole East side of Penticton , that can captivate the essence of the South Okanagan, in time the new Highway from up east behind O.K. Falls [yes] highway to Kelowna I said. We have to get our heads out of the sand, remove the blinders that are for horses to keep them straight [Tunnel vision], with them off, we get the whole picture. We can't stop the future, it's inevitable, we just have to get the narrow minded municipal bureaucrats as well as Provincial or the ones writing their speech's and thinking for them, Tunnel Vision. Til Later.....

[Jimbop]

YES,YES,YES. Hire the locals! But reality is, no one gives a crap about anyone but their bank account. Loyalty has gone to the wayside. I'm old school. I hire locals & buy local, as much as possible. Just my opinion, but I think Sendero canyon looks like . Cookie cutter housing so close you can hear your neighbour fart. Very little greenery. Not even pleasant to look at. If Penticton was a doughnut, this would be the hole. God help them if 1 catches fire. Be a real shame to have this on the hillside of the Naramata bench. Not to mention a traffic nightmare! But hey, pave paradise and put up a parking lot.

[BC Landlord]

YES,YES,YES. Hire the locals! But reality is, no one gives a *bleep* about anyone but their bank account. Loyalty has gone to the wayside. I'm old school. I hire locals & buy local, as much as possible. Just my opinion, but I think Sendero canyon looks like . Cookie cutter housing so close you can hear your neighbour fart. Very little greenery. Not even pleasant to look at. If Penticton was a doughnut, this would be the hole. God help them if 1 catches fire. Be a real shame to have this on the hillside of the Naramata bench. Not to mention a traffic nightmare! But hey, pave paradise and put up a parking lot.

There are by far more "cookie cutters" (I call them "shoeboxes") in Penticton's core, than anywhere in surrounding areas. As for Sendero, it's a nice area but probably out of reach for many. About 4 years ago I was looking to buy a house there, and they were selling for about $400k, decent size. My wife talked me out of it. Nowadays, there is almost nothing up there for under a million.

[twobits]

There are by far more "cookie cutters" (I call them "shoeboxes") in Penticton's core, than anywhere in surrounding areas. As for Sendero, it's a nice area but probably out of reach for many. About 4 years ago I was looking to buy a house there, and they were selling for about $400k, decent size. My wife talked me out of it. Nowadays, there is almost nothing up there for under a million.

The cookie cutters in town are redevelopes. Small scale. Chase Valley Construction does many of them but they are innovative and attractive. Kudo's to them.
What bothers me is that it now seems that a bank roll of 10 to 20 million is what is required to develop new lots for single family homes. The City has become so onerous in it's demands for a complete and comprehensive plans that the small scale developer can no longer exist. For clarity, I would use Wiltse Flats as an example. That was small scale development despite it's finished size. 10 to 20 lots added every year as market demands where met. City approved servicing and it was all good. Over the years the neighborhood matured and architecture evolved so it does not look cookie cutter at all.
I would like to see a return to that kind of incremental development rather than corporate rape of 50 to 100 acres of cookie cutter crap and market dominance where they set the price.

[pentona]

I would hope that if the Naramata Bench project goes ahead, that its nothing like Sendero. Have always thought that houses there are too close together and off-street parking totally inadequate (especially with the homes that have suites in them). Ever drive up there after work? Cars parked all over the streets; just not designed properly for such potentially nice homes.

[twobits]

I would hope that if the Naramata Bench project goes ahead, that its nothing like Sendero. Have always thought that houses there are too close together and off-street parking totally inadequate (especially with the homes that have suites in them). Ever drive up there after work? Cars parked all over the streets; just not designed properly for such potentially nice homes.

It will look even worse than Sendero. Look at the artist concept drawing that was posted here on Castanet. It will be lines of parallel roads across slope with massive land retention retaining structures between every road going up the slope aspect. Our forest management practices do not even allow logging cuts that are visible like this for such a distance for esthetic purposes.
Sendero has absolutely maximized density of of lot footprint for single family homes to maximize return on investment. They are nothing more than townhouses with 6 ft in between them but at least they are not visible from Naramata Rd or Hwy 97 across Okanagan lake coming into town from the north.

[twobits]

Did a few days of posts just vanish here??
I see Maclean's Magazine has picked this asinine Naramata Bench Housing proposal as the Number 2 in all off Canada First Nation fights to watch for 2021.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton ... ch-in-2021

That is a pretty bold suggestion that Penticton City Council should maybe re evaluate what they consider as future urban growth area. The three blind mice area, immediately to the north and bordering this development abortion plan, was wisely removed from the Official Community Plan as "future residential". They removed the Upper Carmi area that is instead a natural extension of transportation corridors from the already paid for bike lanes and public transportation route extensions as well as already paid for and in place domestic water and sewer infrastructure.
Problem the City faces now is litigation from Canadian Horizons that in good faith purchased the property with it being designated by the City, as future residential.
See the problem here?
The only card the City holds is that the future use designation for residential use does not specify density such as proposed by Canadian Horizons concept plan of "the most lots per square foot on the sloped property".
So.......does the City cave or instead argue that the OCP designation of residential could also only include approval of minimum one or two acre residential lots. I believe it does and we will see what kind of stones the Council and Planning staff have with a large development entity over the next few Council meeting. So sad for you Canadian Horizons in your gamble of purchasing these lands for square foot max density based only on an OCP concept that requires a zoning change. You gambled your land investment on a "maybe" and it is not a sure thing.......especially with the FN's so curiously interested.
Pay attention so you know who to support in the next election.

[cr125]

The design doesn't look much different than what's happened above the Penticton airport, and at the north end of Osoyoos Lake. (all which are visible from Hwy 97)
I guess its a do as i say , not as i do. Just seems a little hypocritical?

After all, people need a place to live.

[twobits]

The design doesn't look much different than what's happened above the Penticton airport, and at the north end of Osoyoos Lake. (all which are visible from Hwy 97)
I guess its a do as i say , not as i do. Just seems a little hypocritical?

After all, people need a place to live.

I actually love this post. It is so bang on true.
Far too often, the "traditional Territory" card been played to claim infringement on "traditional" lands. The actual hypocrisy is however that when these kind of developments get a clear pass to move forward because it is "locatee" land and the PIB has no jurisdiction to control any development on those lands.
Is it just me that finds it curious that they cannot oppose what Locatee owners build on their lands but they can Supreme Court the out of anyone that has land that is not Locatee land off reserve.
They actually laugh about this and how the federal gov't funds them to do it.