Meters tampered with?

[XT225]

I don't think you get the point here, Twobits. These people are not growing for their personal use; its for profit so there are many more than a few plants. Bypassing the meter is routine to these folks; a smart meter makes no difference as the point at which the illegal tie-in is done, is "before the meter; smart one or not".

Okay, I get what you are saying. Profit vs personal use. So what you are suggesting is that smart meters are not as smart as first presented and that the bigger growers of illicit illegal grow ops have already figgered out how to be smarter than a smart meter? Then why did we pay tens of millions to convert to smart meters if they do not present any savings or ROI on the current grid users???

I am no electrician but from what I understand, any grow operators serious about not attracting attention from the power company have somehow cut into the power lines BEFORE the meter (external side of the meter); that way (I think) the meter (standard or smart meter) only shows what was used inside the residence; not externally. Dangerous as heck to do it but these bandits will try anything to get away with their business. A smart meter sends data to the power company and does/can show when power was used so they can either charge you more or less for certain times of the day but if the meter doesn't detect anything being used INside the house, there is nothing sent anywhere. This is my understanding of how it works; though I may stand corrected.

[twobits]

I don't get this. Do we have smart meters installed at 10's of millions of dollars that retepayers are paying for and the grow ops can still operate??
We were told smart meters would save us millions in theft detection. Were we just sheep and were smart meter installs just foisted on us as a set up for time of use billing? I think this is the whole scam. Tell us we need to find the grow ops when the real reason was getting the cost of smart meters capitalized in the Fortis budget so that the cost would be paid by all of us and they are then in the perfect position to bill us kilowatt by kilowatt, hour by hour, and force us to comply to when power is cheapest for them so they do not have to invest in infrastructure? Smart meters it seems obvious now, were never about detetecting and catching grow ops and much more likely just a method of selling/lying to us a justification for the absorption and acct journal entry to write off smart meters while setting themselves up for billing us by what time of day electricity is used.
Think your electric car is cheap to run now?? Typically overnight. Just wait until your power rate per kilowatt is no longer cheaper overnight cuz the smart grid being built will supply power where ever it is required across all time zones. We are being played here.

[JagXKR]

I don't get this. Do we have smart meters installed at 10's of millions of dollars that retepayers are paying for and the grow ops can still operate??

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but Penticton does not have smart meters. We have AMR meters. Just a way to read the meter from a car.

https://www.penticton.ca/city-services/ ... er-reading

AMR meters make it possible for City staff to read the community's approximately 25,000 electrical meters, in conjunction with around 9,500 water meters, using an AMR drive-by system. This is conducted monthly and takes about 20 hours to complete. Previously, meters were read on foot, which took several weeks.

https://www.yuenergy.co.uk/news/smart-v ... difference

An AMR meter only communicates from the customer to the energy supplier, whereas a smart meter has two-way communication between the energy supplier and the business customer.

The amount of information they provide is also different. AMR meters only provide kWh information and possible peak kW demand for the month.

Smart meters send a lot more information, including: cumulative kWh usage, daily usage, peak kW demand, voltage information, outage information, time of use kWh and peak kW readings. They also send tamper notifications to the energy supplier.

Smart meters come with an optional Smart Energy Display, which shows you real time energy usage and how much you’re using in pounds and pence. This helps improve customers’ understanding of their energy usage, and means there will be fewer customer support queries.

[twobits]

Jag....sorry but please show us where a drive by radio frequency (AMR) meter cannot be upgraded to a "smart" meter with nothing more than a software download unknown to the homeowner. They are all capable.
This is moot however as the City of Penticton chose to go the AMR Meter route which sadly just means they skipped the flack of radio waves nuking DNA with a monthly radio burst of a millisecond and and no one in Penticton had a problem.
What did however happen Is the City of Penticton now has smart meters installed at each and every acct in Penticton. They may not be operating to their full smart meter capacity but they are only a software millisecond download to your meter away from broadcasting your use of smart all smart appliances you own down to the second.
If anyone should think this a a wonderful and efficient advancement for society.........You better buy you wife a toy that does not require plugging into the grid.

[JagXKR]

Jag....sorry but please show us where a drive by radio frequency (AMR) meter cannot be upgraded to a "smart" meter with nothing more than a software download unknown to the homeowner. They are all capable.
This is moot however as the City of Penticton chose to go the AMR Meter route which sadly just means they skipped the flack of radio waves nuking DNA with a monthly radio burst of a millisecond and and no one in Penticton had a problem.
What did however happen Is the City of Penticton now has smart meters installed at each and every acct in Penticton. They may not be operating to their full smart meter capacity but they are only a software millisecond download to your meter away from broadcasting your use of smart all smart appliances you own down to the second.
If anyone should think this a a wonderful and efficient advancement for society.........You better buy you wife a toy that does not require plugging into the grid.

Did you read my links? We do not have smart meters. They are not the same and are not capable of a software upgrade.
Show me where this is possible. The entire meter would need to be replaced.
I can show where you are wrong...again.
https://png.ca/faq-amr/
Ours have one way communication and to make it 2 way is impossible. A full replacement is needed.

And the AMR meters send out radio waves as well.
Please do not tell me that you are one of the Smart Meter wack jobs.
That horse is beaten, dead, cooked and served on a plate in China.
When it comes to radio frequencies I am very well versed. Especially power vs distance. The inverse-square law.

[XT225]

I don't think you get the point here, Twobits. These people are not growing for their personal use; its for profit so there are many more than a few plants. Bypassing the meter is routine to these folks; a smart meter makes no difference as the point at which the illegal tie-in is done, is "before the meter; smart one or not".

Okay, I get what you are saying. Profit vs personal use. So what you are suggesting is that smart meters are not as smart as first presented and that the bigger growers of illicit illegal grow ops have already figgered out how to be smarter than a smart meter? Then why did we pay tens of millions to convert to smart meters if they do not present any savings or ROI on the current grid users???

As someone has stated, Penticton does not have smart meters; only AMR ones; one-way meters that allow meter reading by driving by a residence and not having to enter the yard (nice feature; Fortis still has to walk the walk in order to read their gas meters). Smart meters would have allowed the City to charge more for electricity during peak hours or less during quieter times; so we can breathe a sigh of relief (as consumers) that the City never went the smart meter route. I believe that some surrounding communities have gone to smart metering. Bypassing a meter to steal electricity is dangerous to do so, but regardless of what type of meter is installed, if a bypass is done "before the meter", the City/power company would be none the wiser, except that an "area/neighbourhood" might show higher than normal useage if a grow op was in place. That's how I understand it, anyways.

[twobits]

I stand corrected....sort of. I accept your notion that AMR meters are only one way communicating. I am not so sure however that the conversion to two way communication requires a hardware change. ie the whole damn meter.
Time of day consumption is the holy grail of utility companies and what we no doubt will be headed to in order to force a change in our consumption habits. The rest of the first world Countries are way ahead of us on this already.
And this is why I am suspect of our current electric meters' difficulty in conversion to collect time of use charges. Penticton essentially changed out all Electric meters at the same time that Fortis and BC Hydro did. Why would Penticton go to a meter model that was not easily changed cuz the whole world is moving to time of use billing? Makes zero sense.

And no, I am not a tin foil hat whackjob against smart meters. They are actually a valuable tool for the Utility to maximize Grid utilization. I just don't like being lied to about why millions were spent to change everyone's meter. Time of day consumption billing would have been fought against hard by the public. Tell them the reason for meter change is to smoke out and expose the grow ops and there is no resistance from the public. Gaslighted and they never had a clue.

[JagXKR]

My tinfoil hat type comment was due to this. if I misunderstood.

This is moot however as the City of Penticton chose to go the AMR Meter route which sadly just means they skipped the flack of radio waves nuking DNA with a monthly radio burst of a millisecond and and no one in Penticton had a problem.

As for the switch from AMR to Smart, take a look at the meters on their pdf from my link.
https://www.penticton.ca/sites/default/ ... 0Sheet.pdf
The AMR and the smart meter look nothing alike. It's a kin to having a desktop computer with a hard wired LAN for internet and saying that a software update will make it wireless. Nope. Hardware change needed. The AMR type that the city is using is old school tech and not upgradable to smart. However a meter change would not take very long, it would be costly though.
But cheaper to replace every meter in the city than the cost of spandex bike lanes.
Also if I was given the choice I would get it installed at my residence. Time of use would save me money.

[XT225]

My tinfoil hat type comment was due to this. if I misunderstood.

This is moot however as the City of Penticton chose to go the AMR Meter route which sadly just means they skipped the flack of radio waves nuking DNA with a monthly radio burst of a millisecond and and no one in Penticton had a problem.

As for the switch from AMR to Smart, take a look at the meters on their pdf from my link.
https://www.penticton.ca/sites/default/ ... 0Sheet.pdf
The AMR and the smart meter look nothing alike. It's a kin to having a desktop computer with a hard wired LAN for internet and saying that a software update will make it wireless. Nope. Hardware change needed. The AMR type that the city is using is old school tech and not upgradable to smart. However a meter change would not take very long, it would be costly though.
But cheaper to replace every meter in the city than the cost of spandex bike lanes.
Also if I was given the choice I would get it installed at my residence. Time of use would save me money.

I believe at the time the City of Penticton chose to change to AMR meters, there were issues elsewhere with law suits against smart meters re possible fire starts and/or RFI issues, so they backed off on that changeover and went this route instead. I could be wrong but I believe that was the case. We are likely stuck with the AMR ones for some time, because as you say, it would be costly to change them over now when these ones are relatively new. I would not personally WANT a smart meter for certain situations (ie: if you have a hot tub, you cannot easily control the time that it heats) or if cold at night during evening hours if you turn up your electric heat, you could get nailed with extra rates. What we have now will do just fine in my books for some time to come.

[BC Landlord]

If someone spliced the cable before the meter, its type (smart or dumb) would be irrelevant. And that's exactly what illegal grow-ops do.

[soupy]

If someone spliced the cable before the meter, its type (smart or dumb) would be irrelevant. And that's exactly what illegal grow-ops do.

Tampering with meters (smart or dumb) is just dumb.

Those that do deserve to be fined.

[Bsuds]

Those that do deserve to be fined.

Considering why they do it a jail term would be more appropriate.

[soupy]

Those that do deserve to be fined.

Considering why they do it a jail term would be more appropriate.

Well yes, but i believe the intent of the original article and fines were not suggesting all was illegal by-pass.
As stated, there are locations that have prevented access by not providing proper keys, keeping area clear etc etc.

[Bsuds]

Considering why they do it a jail term would be more appropriate.

Well yes, but i believe the intent of the original article and fines were not suggesting all was illegal by-pass.
As stated, there are locations that have prevented access by not providing proper keys, keeping area clear etc etc.

For those then a hefty fine would be good.

[soupy]

Well yes, but i believe the intent of the original article and fines were not suggesting all was illegal by-pass.
As stated, there are locations that have prevented access by not providing proper keys, keeping area clear etc etc.

For those then a hefty fine would be good.

A meter bypass should be hefty fine, jail time, and specific pre-paid requirements in order to get utilities in one's name ever again.