Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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fluffy wrote: Dec 9th, 2022, 12:51 pm
bobbyrog wrote: Dec 9th, 2022, 12:24 pmWhat solution arises from having this information?
That’s the elephant in the room right there.
How can there be an 'elephant in the room' when there's hardly and issue that's being avoided for discussion? Trying to make something an issue when it really isn't is not a flattering position to take and is usually a symptom of not paying attention or not understanding something no matter how hard someone tries to explain it.

In this case, the reasons for the motion were laid out in council and there has been quite a bit of discussion around it being a starting point. In fact, I'd submit attempting to get data is a far better step than not trying to get data. Trying to gather all information possible from various sources is a sign of attempting to make good decisions. Crime was the top issue during the last election and it is actually refreshing to see that at least one councillor has the courage to start asking questions which the previous council was somewhat delinquent in.

They spent most of their time trying to get permits for the provincial government so they could build more subsidized housing like the project at 3240 Skaha Lake Road than actually addressing crime.
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fluffy
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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The “elephant in the room” is just as bobbyrog asked, what solution would having this information offer ? Personally, I think the prison administration may just tell them to take a hike for privacy reasons.
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Corneliousrooster
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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Why is this such a hard concept to understand?

It is fact finding- not a solution.

There is no elephant...
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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fluffy wrote: Dec 9th, 2022, 10:04 pm The “elephant in the room” is just as bobbyrog asked, what solution would having this information offer ? Personally, I think the prison administration may just tell them to take a hike for privacy reasons.
The Prison admin being bound by their own rules and confidentiality is certainly right up there. I however do not see any reason why more generic and non identifying information could not be confidentially tracked and converted to numbers only......of how many released actually stay in the area or move back to their old stomping grounds.
Without these numbers, how can local gov't lobby for funding of more enforcement and have some credibility in their request?
That Fluff, is what the information would be useful for. We are not asking for names....we just want numbers. You are making yourself the liberal elephant in this room.
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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Corneliousrooster wrote: Dec 10th, 2022, 3:49 pmIt is fact finding- not a solution.
Politics isn't about collecting information for fun. It's about solving problems, finding solutions. And time and time again, you guys have failed to come up with anything that having the ex-convict data contributes towards a solution. Until you can provide any reason otherwise, anybody with any amount of common sense can see the data is a waste of time.
twobits wrote: Dec 10th, 2022, 6:23 pmWithout these numbers, how can local gov't lobby for funding of more enforcement and have some credibility in their request?
Uh... how about crime statistics? To claim they could use the ex-convict data to fund law enforcement implies all ex-convicts are recidivists, which is an absolutely ridiculous, ignorant statement.
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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bobbyrog wrote: Dec 10th, 2022, 11:32 pmTo claim they could use the ex-convict data to fund law enforcement implies all ex-convicts are recidivists, which is an absolutely ridiculous, ignorant statement.
That’s the meat of it right there. Yes, property crime is a major issue in Penticton, but Mr. Gilbert is correct in questioning targeted action against the prison. What difference does it make where the criminals are coming from ? And for the umpteenth time, what would council do with that information if they had it ? “Make better decisions” to what ?
"The cleverest ruse of the Devil is to persuade you he does not exist."
- Charles Baudelaire, 1864
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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fluffy wrote: Dec 11th, 2022, 4:54 am
bobbyrog wrote: Dec 10th, 2022, 11:32 pmTo claim they could use the ex-convict data to fund law enforcement implies all ex-convicts are recidivists, which is an absolutely ridiculous, ignorant statement.
That’s the meat of it right there. Yes, property crime is a major issue in Penticton, but Mr. Gilbert is correct in questioning targeted action against the prison. What difference does it make where the criminals are coming from ? And for the umpteenth time, what would council do with that information if they had it ? “Make better decisions” to what ?
It's truly unbelievable that someone would try and paint the prison as a victim with a comment like "... targeted action against the prison."

It makes a huge difference where criminals are coming from ... you know as in trying to identify the source of the problem ...

As for the questions asked, for the 'umpteenth time' the answers have been given many times over ... Instead of offering solutions comments by people like gilbert serve as impediments and obfuscate efforts to solve the crime problem.
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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A Concerned Citizen wrote: Dec 11th, 2022, 9:38 am As for the questions asked, for the 'umpteenth time' the answers have been given many times over...
I must have missed it, remind me. If council had such information, what would they do with it ? For discussion’s sake, suppose they did find that crimes had been committed by some former inmates, what would they do then ? I see where you’re coming from, I just don’t think you’ve thought it through very well in terms of the rights of former prisoners and the risks involved in basing decisions affecting all of them on the possible actions of a few.
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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fluffy wrote: Dec 11th, 2022, 11:50 am

I must have missed it, remind me. If council had such information, what would they do with it ? For discussion’s sake, suppose they did find that crimes had been committed by some former inmates, what would they do then ? I see where you’re coming from, I just don’t think you’ve thought it through very well in terms of the rights of former prisoners and the risks involved in basing decisions affecting all of them on the possible actions of a few.
There is a pretty good chance “some” criminals will re-offend. Since you don’t comprehend how council may use the statistics I will give an extreme example.

Let’s say council asked ALL western Canada prisons where they release ex convicts and the data came back that 90% of all releases were given a bus ticket to Penticton. Can you see how that data might useful? (Not a be all solution - but a building block piece of data). Can you see how council might use this data to ask for a policy change by the prisons? ( not a crime solution, but a Penticton crime specific solution)
No ex criminals are being smeared - no specific finger pointing
Why is this so hard?

Being the Oliver prison is fairly recent - and Penticton crime has spiked fairly recently- this is a fair ask

Mr.Gilbert was the sole opposing voice - this is all moot. The motion will move forward and everyone can see where his thought train is travelling. Thankfully majority of council have eyes on the streets and are listening to their citizens.
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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Corneliousrooster wrote: Dec 11th, 2022, 2:02 pmThere is a pretty good chance “some” criminals will re-offend. Since you don’t comprehend how council may use the statistics I will give an extreme example.

Let’s say council asked ALL western Canada prisons where they release ex convicts and the data came back that 90% of all releases were given a bus ticket to Penticton. Can you see how that data might useful? (Not a be all solution - but a building block piece of data). Can you see how council might use this data to ask for a policy change by the prisons? ( not a crime solution, but a Penticton crime specific solution)
If, and that’s a big “if”, a direct connection can be drawn between the Oliver prison and local crime rates, what then ?
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Dec 11th, 2022, 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Personal attack
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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Corneliousrooster wrote: Dec 11th, 2022, 2:02 pmLet’s say council asked ALL western Canada prisons where they release ex convicts and the data came back that 90% of all releases were given a bus ticket to Penticton. Can you see how that data might useful?
No I cannot, because they can't stop ex-convicts from moving to Penticton. It's irrelevant where a criminal comes from, prison or not. Knowing where they came from solves nothing and doesn't bring us any closer to a solution because we cannot do anything with the data.

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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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"Contrived quote from a random historical figure which vaguely reinforces my ignorant beliefs to make me feel smart"
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Re: Coun. Isaac Gilbert

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