BC Election issues

[The Green Barbarian]

the scoc of canada said the bctf deal was fine . time to find some maturity and get over it .

The deal wasn't fine at all. It was bankrupting BC. It was a back-room sleaze-bag deal made by NDP sleaze-bags. It was disgusting. It's time to find some maturity and realize that the NDP just plain sucks.

[maryjane48]

yea well i find clarks flippant reaction to the guy that killed himself because she refused to do the right thing beyong sleazy and if you want to talk wasting money the ndp have noth8ng on clark . clarks spent our money in the tens of billions with very little in terms of bc improving for everyone .

[rustled]

the scoc of canada said the bctf deal was fine . time to find some maturity and get over it .

Did we take the BCTF and the NDP to court to test the validity of the deal done in a backroom, where the NDP ignored the politicians we, the people, had elected to take responsibility for negotiating on our behalf?

I don't recall the SCOC ruling on whether or not the government of the day had the right to overstep their boundaries and ignore the people we'd elected to do the job.

With hindsight, trotting off to court may have been a better recourse than the one chosen to rectify that transgression.

Regardless, we can bet the posters here withe persistent myopic bias on this subject would still be complaining it was all the Liberals' fault it ended up in court at all, that they'd still refuse to take any responsibility for the other two parties' roles in this ridiculously expensive backroom re-direction of our resources to appease the BCTF.

It takes a certain amount of maturity to recognize the wrongs done by the side you champion. Just sayin'.

[The Green Barbarian]

Regardless, we can bet the posters here withe persistent myopic bias on this subject would still be complaining it was all the Liberals' fault it ended up in court at all, that they'd still refuse to take any responsibility for the other two parties' roles in this ridiculously expensive backroom re-direction of our resources to appease the BCTF.
.

Yup. Never admit any wrong-doing. And lose election after election. NDP constants.

[Urbane]

• Did we take the BCTF and the NDP to court to test the validity of the deal done in a backroom, where the NDP ignored the politicians we, the people, had elected to take responsibility for negotiating on our behalf?
  
  I don't recall the SCOC ruling on whether or not the government of the day had the right to overstep their boundaries and ignore the people we'd elected to do the job.
  
  With hindsight, trotting off to court may have been a better recourse than the one chosen to rectify that transgression.
  
  Regardless, we can bet the posters here withe persistent myopic bias on this subject would still be complaining it was all the Liberals' fault it ended up in court at all, that they'd still refuse to take any responsibility for the other two parties' roles in this ridiculously expensive backroom re-direction of our resources to appease the BCTF.
  
  It takes a certain amount of maturity to recognize the wrongs done by the side you champion. Just sayin'.

Excellent points rustled. We need to go back and look at what happened after the backroom deal was reached. After eight consecutive deficit budgets the NDP government realized that they needed to put the brakes on runaway spending. So they balanced the books that last year in office, with a small surplus, and it's that surplus that's been referenced on here by those who tell us that the NDP left a surplus for the Liberals. LOL.

Anyway, that backroom deal looked good to the BCTF but when they found out that the NDP government didn't have money to make it work they were furious. Many teachers (and other government workers who were mad at the government) stayed home on election day or voted for another party. So the Liberals were elected in a landslide and they couldn't find enough money to make the backroom deal work either. They agreed with Carole James, who as president of the BC School Trustees Association, had warned that the deal's lack of flexibility would create problems.

The government and the BCTF ended up in court after the Liberal government removed language from the contract. The government said that they couldn't make that language work and the BCTF said a deal is a deal, even a backroom deal. Court rulings, for and against the government's action, have been based on the law and not on the viability of that backroom deal from an educational standpoint or from an affordability standpoint.

I try not to look at issues in a partisan way. One could be an NDP'er, like Carole James, and still recognize the problems that lack of flexibility can cause. Or one could be a conservative and understand that more resources might be needed for special needs. Pragmatism should trump partisanship but too often it doesn't. That's really too bad.

[maryjane48]

there is no such thing as to much money being spent on education. infact if it was up to me all bc residents would get free university

[rustled]

there is no such thing as to much money being spent on education. infact if it was up to me all bc residents would get free university

LOL. Thank heaven's you haven't been handed the fleecing shears, mj!

[The Green Barbarian]

there is no such thing as to much money being spent on education. infact if it was up to me all bc residents would get free university

But if it's free, then shouldn't the people paying for it also have a say in what is being taught? Ie - if the government is taking my money to pay for "free" education, then the only courses that should be free are ones that add value to the economy and society, which would mean all social justice garbage would have to be thrown out immediately from the curriculum, which in turn would mean that Starbucks and Tim Hortons would receive an influx of "professors" applying who would suddenly be without young minds to corrupt and ruin, and who of course are not qualified to anything else. In fact, saying they could work at Starbuck or Tim Hortons is an insult to people who work at Starbucks and Tim Hortons. Actually, I kind of like this idea - no education without representation!!! Give me an education that is worth something in the real world or give me death! :)

[hobbyguy]

MJ - how the money is spent matters as much or more as how much.

10 teachers for $1 million, or 7 teachers and 6 EAs - which is more effective? 10 folks helping the kids or 13 folks helping the kids???

In my books, the 13 folks helping out the kids is more effective - more one on one time.

[Queen K]

there is no such thing as to much money being spent on education. infact if it was up to me all bc residents would get free university

But if it's free, then shouldn't the people paying for it also have a say in what is being taught? Ie - if the government is taking my money to pay for "free" education, then the only courses that should be free are ones that add value to the economy and society, which would mean all social justice garbage would have to be thrown out immediately from the curriculum, which in turn would mean that Starbucks and Tim Hortons would receive an influx of "professors" applying who would suddenly be without young minds to corrupt and ruin, and who of course are not qualified to anything else. In fact, saying they could work at Starbuck or Tim Hortons is an insult to people who work at Starbucks and Tim Hortons. Actually, I kind of like this idea - no education without representation!!! Give me an education that is worth something in the real world or give me death! :)

Great! Now all we have to do is determine "worth" and monetary value. Nothing to fight about there.
Oh wait...

[The Green Barbarian]

Great! Now all we have to do is determine "worth" and monetary value. Nothing to fight about there.
Oh wait...

Really, it's quite simple. When you graduate, are you qualified to be an accountant, lawyer, engineer, doctor, teacher, computer programmer or have you learned a valuable trade skill? Great! Fund away government! Use my tax money, I'm happy. If all you've learned when you graduate is that western culture is "bad", NDP nomination policies excluding certain people by their gender and race is somehow not racist and sexist, and oil pipelines need to be shut off so that everyone can drive around in wind-powered cars, pay for that useless education yourself.

[Queen K]

Wind-powered cars! See, we need dreamers in this World. Without them, there would be fewer inventions.

Seeing as this isn't an election issue, I suspect we could take this conversation to another thread.
Someone else will bring up the Arts and it's value there.

[hobbyguy]

Actually education and how it is conducted was part of the election issues, but got little notice.

The Green Party platform included what I think are some excellent improvements:

1. Early childhood education for 3 and 4 year olds.
2. Expand adult education programs.
3. A plan to make student loans more affordable and easier to pay back.
4. Invest in in-service skills training and retraining for those displaced by automation (targeting small and medium business)
5. Expand co-op and work experience programs for youth.
6. Review post secondary education to ensure that it is relevant.

So it was there, but only quietly.

[Queen K]

I believe GB was going towards the monetary output value of a human being post-education. A misnomer as we know professional development and innovation never stops. But maybe GB can elaborate on that point.

[JollyGreenBully]

Really, it's quite simple. When you graduate, are you qualified to be an accountant, lawyer, engineer, doctor, teacher, computer programmer or have you learned a valuable trade skill? Great! Fund away government! Use my tax money, I'm happy. If all you've learned when you graduate is that western culture is "bad", NDP nomination policies excluding certain people by their gender and race is somehow not racist and sexist, and oil pipelines need to be shut off so that everyone can drive around in wind-powered cars, pay for that useless education yourself.

Urbane, you have a "leftist" degree in the arts. Yes, it allowed you to become a teacher which is great, but such degrees are bashed relentlessly by people like your buddy GB here.

Why do you never say anything about the worth of art degrees?

I really wish more people would espouse the virtues of liberal arts degrees and how important these degrees are in general for critical thinking skills and creativity in society. It gets tiring clicking onto a topic and seeing non-stop bashing of universities, the arts, etc. Apparently anyone who isn't in a business program is a dumb dick.

What does all this university and arts bashing have to do with the BC election anyway? Was it just thrown in here because every thread on this website has a mandate to have comments bashing the NDP and the arts?