Denying the obvious

Discuss the upcoming elections here.
mr.bandaid
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by mr.bandaid »

I am not so certain that the NDP will dole out money to the Unions, I was part of a public funded union that were treated very poorly by the NDP and Liberals equally. Even if they do support the public unions it would probably be a savings compared to the money, tax cuts and promises that the Liberals are giving business. An example of this is the sale of only VQA wines in local grocery stores. That decision is going to ultimately cost tax payers money in court while other countries and even Canadian provinces take them to task for not allowing their products in stores.
The obvious thing here is that both parties have behaved poorly over the years and have seemingly become less accountable to the people who put them in office. That needs to change.
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alfred2
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by alfred2 »

George+ wrote:Petty nonsense and recycled so many times it is boring.

Urbane, do you read the negative Lists for the Liberals?...
For the last fifteen years, that you so proudly defend.

How could you vote for a party that pushed a young man to suicide?

how can anyone vote for a party that would have an employee payroll tax. :130:
George+
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by George+ »

Urbane, please think of this...

The Health firings must have been known of by cabinet.
They caused the death of a young researcher...suicide.
TheLiberals have a horrible record..worst ever.
Denying the Obvious.....big times!

And I believe that all political parties are a combination of free enterprise and socialism, nowadays.
Think..ALR, state medical, sustainable resource extraction.

We must choose the more committed, responsible party.

In this election there is only one choice now and that is the NDP.
You, as a public educator should be well aware of this.
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Urbane
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Urbane »

    George+ wrote:Urbane, please think of this...

    The Health firings must have been known of by cabinet.
    They caused the death of a young researcher...suicide.
    TheLiberals have a horrible record..worst ever.
    Denying the Obvious.....big times!

    And I believe that all political parties are a combination of free enterprise and socialism, nowadays.
    Think..ALR, state medical, sustainable resource extraction.

    We must choose the more committed, responsible party.

    In this election there is only one choice now and that is the NDP.
    You, as a public educator should be well aware of this.
The cabinet didn't do the investigation of the health care workers. That was an investigator. The firings were made by a civil service and not by the cabinet. The government deserves to be criticized and the ombudsman did just that but he also made it clear that there was no political interference.

Yes, the parties are a combination of free enterprise and socialism but the NDP puts far more emphasis on socialism that the Liberals do. Besides, the NDP is opposed to the Site C dam and might well pull the plug on it even though half of the entire cost has already been spent or committed. Why waste billions of dollars?? Even a leading opponent of the dam says that there is no good reason to halt the project now.

As to the NDP and education I can only say that they couldn't make the old wording in the contract work, the wording that's very close to what is now back in the contract, and the BCTF directed demonstrations against the NDP government. Carole James, president of the BCSTA at the time, was right when she criticized that legislated contract. So in the 2001 election a lot of teachers either stayed home or voted Liberal (Think 77-2). Anyway, the Liberals now have a chance to see if they can make the language work and if it doesn't it will likely be changed when the new contract comes up for negotiation. As a retired educator I'm proud of the positive things that have been happening in the public education system. We have some of the best educational outcomes in the world and that's something to celebrate.
George+
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by George+ »

Man, Urbane, that last line is exactly what the Liberal MLAs say
When they are asked if they have any concerns for how Education has been handled!
90% of teachers say they should but they are all trained, clapping seals. Sad.

And if you believe the Cabinet minister responsible, did not know the firings were happening,
Then I'm sure you will buy the OK lake bridge..even if it is already overused.

And as Rafe Mair will tell you..there are no customers for Site C power.
A step back evaluation is much needed after the election.

I guess if we score the 2001 election as it should be under Proportional Representation it would be someting like

Liberals...40...NDP 25....Greens 10. I understand the NDP is ready to try PR. Are the Liberals?
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Urbane
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Urbane »

    George+ wrote:Man, Urbane, that last line is exactly what the Liberal MLAs say
    When they are asked if they have any concerns for how Education has been handled!
    90% of teachers say they should but they are all trained, clapping seals. Sad.

    And if you believe the Cabinet minister responsible, did not know the firings were happening,
    Then I'm sure you will buy the OK lake bridge..even if it is already overused.

    And as Rafe Mair will tell you..there are no customers for Site C power.
    A step back evaluation is much needed after the election.

    I guess if we score the 2001 election as it should be under Proportional Representation it would be someting like

    Liberals...40...NDP 25....Greens 10. I understand the NDP is ready to try PR. Are the Liberals?
The Liberal MLA's who say that BC has some of the best educational outcomes in the world are simply stating the obvious. Ironic that you disagree with what they're saying.

You're totally missing the point about the firings. The ombudsman got it right. The Liberals do deserve the criticism that he directed their way but on the central issue of the firings there was no political interference.

Rafe Mair is in favour of the Leap Manifesto George. His politics are now on the far left so of course he'll be against Site C. It would be foolhardy to throw away billions of dollars by not completing Site C now and yet John Horgan won't rule out doing just that.
hobbyguy
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by hobbyguy »

In a historical way, the NDP are responsible for the need for site C. It was the NDP that killed the Kemano expansion where Alcan was going to enter into a long term contract to supply electricity. IF that had been completed we probably wouldn't need site C. Nor any of the silly wind and solar projects that are being played with. (Nor $500 million added to the provincial debt for nothing).

Then I see NDP LEAPERS promoting solar and wind projects. https://www.biv.com/article/2017/3/bc-racks-58-billion-independent-power-producers-co/

“This government supported the Independent Power Producers’ industry. NDP Leader John Horgan called it ‘junk power,’” he said. “Our government wanted to create jobs and opportunities across the province and in First Nation communities. The IPP industry has attracted more than $8.6 billion in investment and established valuable partnerships with local communities and First Nations.”

It is indeed "junk power" in many contexts (but not for those communities that rely on diesel generation like Haida Gwaii).

So the NDP LEAPERS want to stop site C. Just like they stopped Kemano and created the need for site C. And they don't want "junk power", but want to promote solar and wind - which is "junk power" in our context and would be IPPs.

Throw into that mix that the NDP were against the closure of the obsolete and polluting Burrard Thermal Plant.

So we have: "no dams", "IPP projects are junk - but we want more of them", and "don't close a polluting and obsolete fossil fuel power plant".

The obvious conclusion - the BC NDP don't know if the are punched, bored, or screwed. All they know is "no".
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
George+
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by George+ »

Urbane...There is no Leap Manifesto George!

Wonder what cost of Site C will do to already high hydro rates
And really bankrupt B.C. hydro.

The Liberals , in reality, have done a horrible job on the economy...riddled with debt.

And..I said Education generally not just the results...many at risk students have been robbed.
Good thing you got out when you did.

And I am talking about political knowledge..they should have interfered!

You should stop cheerleading for the Liberals.
George+
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by George+ »

Yeah, Kemano 1 only flooded 880 square kilometres.

Kemano 2 got lost in First Nation legal battles.

Not to mention that the Kemano River was a major salmon spawning area.

These mega projects only offer short term employment and are often very disruptive
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Urbane
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Urbane »

    George+ wrote:Urbane...There is no Leap Manifesto George!

    Wonder what cost of Site C will do to already high hydro rates
    And really bankrupt B.C. hydro.

    The Liberals , in reality, have done a horrible job on the economy...riddled with debt.

    And..I said Education generally not just the results...many at risk students have been robbed.
    Good thing you got out when you did.

    And I am talking about political knowledge..they should have interfered!

    You should stop cheerleading for the Liberals.
With John Horgan on video telling us that he doesn't disagree with the bulk of what's in the Leap Manifesto and that he will bring in his own Leap Manifesto here you are pretending that it doesn't even exist. Yes, I know that you're adding "George" to Leap Manifesto to justify your denial of reality. Denying the obvious. Hence the reason I started this thread.

Of course Site C will cost something but we currently have some of the lowest hydro costs on the continent. I'm willing to pay for green energy and in the long run Site C will save us money.

You criticized the Liberals for NOT running up more debt to pay for what the BCTF was asking for and now you're blaming them for having too much debt. You need to make up your mind.

No, the ombudsman got it right with the firings. Good for him.

Cheerleading for the Liberals? Not I. I've said that they deserve to be defeated and I said the same thing in 2013. But I don't favour the Leap Manifesto and I do favour Site C. I favour the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion as well. How many times do we have to say it? We need a viable alternative to the Liberals.
George+
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by George+ »

Maybe use commas, better?

So...what have you done to get a "viable alternative" going?

Right now, comma, it is only the NDP.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by The Green Barbarian »

George+ wrote:Maybe use commas, better?

So...what have you done to get a "viable alternative" going?

Right now, comma, it is only the NDP.


What makes the NDP viable exactly? Their policies, what few there are, are just more of the same unelectable dreck, that only appeal to people who can't do math, or who hate all progress. The NDP are not a viable option at all.
Justin Trudeau- racist, elitist, liar. What a sick piece of garbage.

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hobbyguy
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by hobbyguy »

George you make my point about the NDP.
*removed*
Look at the land those big bird killers destroy. There is no free lunch, but the NDP LEAPERS would have you think there is.

And that's all I see the NDP doing, is promising free lunches - when I know there ain't no such thing. The NDP depth of policy is about the same as Louie Gomert's.

E.G. Fine and dandy to talk about $10 daycare - BUT who is going to pay, what is the tax policy to pay for it? How do you administer it? Will it be subsidies to private operators? Tax credits to parents? Refundable or non-refundable tax credits if so? Will someone making $250,000/yr get $10/day daycare? What's the cut off? Where are you going to put all those day cares? How are you going to staff them? What educational requirements? None? How long will it take to implement? Will there be an inspection regime? Will it be government run public day care? At what age are young ones eligible to attend? Start answering those questions and you have a plan, without a plan it is just nonsense promises of a free lunch.
Last edited by ferri on Apr 9th, 2017, 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Link to article other than Castanet
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George+
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by George+ »

And all of this ha been explained by many again and again...

https://www.biv.com/article/2017/1/subs ... udy-finds/
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Urbane
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Urbane »

You have to be pretty naive to think that $10 per day childcare will pay for itself.

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