Denying the obvious

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Merry
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Merry »

Urbane wrote:There's another big difference between the two stipends: Moe Sihota's came directly from the labour movement and was solicited by him. Christy Clark's was money that came from the Liberal Party. Yes, the Liberals receive a lot of money from corporate donations. I get that I'd like to see corporate and union donations banned. But until that happens it's legal. And that's the excuse we keep hearing about Horgan's pay for play events i.e. they're legal. When Christy Clark does it it's bribery but when Horgan does it it's okay because they're legal. Ditto for the large corporate donations that the NDP happily accepted in 2013 when it looked like they'd win. There's plenty of sleaze to go around but some people only see it in the Liberal Party.

The fact remains Urbane that Mr. Sihota was NOT a sitting Premier when he was paid a salary for being the President of a political Party; therefore the stench of "buying" influence from a Government official is not the same. Besides which, it happened over half a decade ago. Time to move on.

At least we agree that BOTH union and corporate donations should be banned, and yes I also agree that "pay for access" fundraising should also be banned. No Party should be allowed to raise money this way, but particularly the Party that is in power.

I don't criticize either Party for doing what is legal; my issue is that such activities should NOT be legal, and I think that we British Columbian's should be leaning on our respective Parties to ensure such legislation is enacted regardless of WHO wins. I understand the NDP has already committed to banning corporate and union donations, but why haven't the Liberals?
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Urbane
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Urbane »

^^ Do you not see that the party out of power is trying to be the party in power? So the same issues arise. I agree that Sihota was a party president and not a premier but his money was coming directly from the labour movement and he solicited that money. You don't see that as sleazy?

Anyway, I agree that the Liberals are on the wrong side of the fundraising debate but the NDP is on the wrong side when it comes to Site C, Kinder Morgan, and the economy in general. I keep hoping for that viable alternative. Maybe next time.
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logicalview
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by logicalview »

Merry wrote:. I understand the NDP has already committed to banning corporate and union donations, but why haven't the Liberals?


LOL - and if you honestly think that the NDP is going to axe union donations, then you are beyond naive.
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Urban Cowboy
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Urban Cowboy »

logicalview wrote:
Merry wrote:. I understand the NDP has already committed to banning corporate and union donations, but why haven't the Liberals?


LOL - and if you honestly think that the NDP is going to axe union donations, then you are beyond naive.


Next they'll be telling us the NDP will vote Liberal, oh wait........................... quite a few did last election. [icon_lol2.gif]
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Merry
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Merry »

Urbane wrote:I agree that the Liberals are on the wrong side of the fundraising debate but the NDP is on the wrong side when it comes to Site C, Kinder Morgan, and the economy in general. I keep hoping for that viable alternative. Maybe next time.

10/10
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by BeingHuman »

logicalview wrote:
Merry wrote:. I understand the NDP has already committed to banning corporate and union donations, but why haven't the Liberals?


LOL - and if you honestly think that the NDP is going to axe union donations, then you are beyond naive.


*removed* an NDP government that has actually introduced and enacted government legislation to ban corporate and union donations.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alb ... e25074664/
Last edited by ferri on Apr 19th, 2017, 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by The Green Barbarian »

BeingHuman wrote:an NDP government that has actually introduced and enacted government legislation to ban corporate and union donations.
/


So can you replace the current set of bozos we have here in BC in the NDP with the Alberta NDP? Please??? Because they are not the same at all. Despite your desperate attempts to spin otherwise.
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Urbane
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Urbane »

It's been almost a month since I started this thread so time to update. There is no denying that a substantial portion of the population is tired of the BC Liberals. Me too. No question that a lot of people are tired of some of the shenanigans that have gone on and there's no denying the fact that many who don't like the policies of the NDP wish they had a centre/centre-right alternative to the Liberals. Me too. However:

There is no denying the fact that BC's economy is strong. We have the most vibrant economy in the country with the strongest job growth, the lowest unemployment, the best economic growth, and the lowest debt burden. Projects like Site C are helping to put British Columbians to work and build our economy.

While there have been legal problems with the education file there is no denying the fact that our educational outcomes are some of the best in the world. First in reading, second in science, and sixth in math. Impressive! Spending has been increased to further help special needs students and the government and BCTF have collaborated on a new curriculum. No denying there is very good news on the educational front.

Our health outcomes are some of the best in the country. No denying that. The new cardiac wing at KGH along with other improvements there, the recent building project at Vernon Jubilee, and the new tower being built in Penticton (that's the tower that some deny is being built except that it is!!) are examples of positive things happening in healthcare.

Improvements to our transportation infrastructure can't be denied either. Close to home, the improvements to Westside Rd are an example. Lots of projects completed or ongoing on the Lower Mainland as well of course.

It's easy to deny the obvious if one's mindset is just "I hate Christy Clark." And if you're way over in left field it's especially easy. But the facts are there for all to see. The BC Liberal Party isn't perfect but they have been good stewards of our economy and overall have done an excellent job in the areas that count.
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by maryjane48 »

[quote="Urbane"]It's been almost a month since I started this thread so time to update. There is no denying that a substantial portion of the population is tired of the BC Liberals. Me too. No question that a lot of people are tired of some of the shenanigans that have gone on and there's no denying the fact that many who don't like the policies of the NDP wish they had a centre/centre-right alternative to the Liberals. Me too. However:
what makes you think bc is cenre right when its the unions and workers that made bc what it is now ?



There is no denying the fact that BC's economy is strong. We have the most vibrant economy in the country with the strongest job growth, the lowest unemployment, the best economic growth, and the lowest debt burden. Projects like Site C are helping to put British Columbians to work and build our economy.

if thats your opinion you live in a bubble



While there have been legal problems with the education file there is no denying the fact that our educational outcomes are some of the best in the world. First in reading, second in science, and sixth in math. Impressive! Spending has been increased to further help special needs students and the government and BCTF have collaborated on a new curriculum. No denying there is very good news on the educational front.



the bclibs under clark wasted 150 million on nothing . parents have not forgotten
Our health outcomes are some of the best in the country. No denying that. The new cardiac wing at KGH along with other improvements there, the recent building project at Vernon Jubilee, and the new tower being built in Penticton (that's the tower that some deny is being built except that it is!!) are examples of positive things happening in healthcare
again if you think healthcare is better u der clark you need get out more. 30 thousand plus in kamloops cant get a doctor. hospital towers wont help that but it will help clarks c9nstruction company ceo


Improvements to our transportation infrastructure can't be denied either. Close to home, the improvements to Westside Rd are an example. Lots of projects completed or ongoing on the Lower Mainland .

. and yet a woman and 2 kids lost their life on stretch of road that she should have fixed first instead of bribing kelowna



It's easy to deny the obvious if one's mindset is just "I hate Christy Clark." And if you're way over in left field it's especially easy. But the facts are there for all to see. The BC Liberal Party isn't perfect but they have been good stewards of our economy and overall have done an excellent job in the areas that count.

corruption should be sent where it belongs regardless of perceived performance .
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Merry
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Merry »

The problem with statistics Urbane is that they don't always tell the full story.

For example, while it is true that BC has the lowest unemployment rate, how many of the employed work in low wage jobs? How many of the employed are part time? And how many of the employed work out of province and commute?

The answers to questions like that are essential if we are to make a fair assessment of the statistics.
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by lasnomadas »

BC's economy is as strong as a house of cards, and it will topple just like that as well. The BC Liberal economy is based on over-inflated real estate sales, money laundering, and resource pipe-dreams. It's just not sustainable.

I haven't done any research on the cardiac wing of KGH, but I do know that the provincial government had little to do with the funding of the Vernon Jubilee Hospital addition, and has little to do with the tower at the Penticton Hospital. Both of those projects were previous election campaign promises that would never have seen the light of day had it not been for funding by the Regional Districts and the private donations from local residents.

The improvements to Westside Road have been minimal, and the only way to eliminate the congestion on both sides of the Bennett Bridge is to turn Westside Road into a proper highway that bypasses downtown Kelowna altogether. There are only a few Okanagan towns that haven't been bypassed already, Vernon, Winfield, Kelowna, Westbank, and Peachland.However, as long as we have Christy and her right-hand man, Brad Bennett in control, they will see to it that nothing will be done in the near or distant future except for another bunch of expensive 2nd bridge bafflegab.

I have nothing more to say about the Site C dam that hasn't been hashed and rehashed ad nauseam, other than to say I'm against it for environmental and economic reasons. It's an election issue that I hope will help topple this corrupt BC government once and for all.
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by rustled »

Denial is such an interesting thing. Someone who doesn't like the Liberals doesn't want to acknowledge evidence of infrastructure improvements. Take the Penticton hospital tower. Faced with indisputable evidence there's improvement underway, they insist the construction only started "a few weeks before the election" (ignoring three years of planning and several months of actual construction).

One wonders, do people believe if any other party were in power, they'd announce a patient tower and hey-presto, within four years it would be fully functional?

Likewise, the improvements to Westside Road are discounted as insignificant, because Westside Road has not (within four years!) been turned into a proper full-speed highway designed to divert all through traffic, while others seem to believe it's within a party's power to ensure there will never be another fatal accident on any given road.

It seems pretty obvious these are unrealistic expectations shared by people who have axes to grind and are prepared to vote accordingly.
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Merry
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by Merry »

It's no good building new hospitals, or buying new medical diagnostic equipment, if you don't have the staff to utilize them.

I remember helping to raise funds to purchase a new x-ray machine for the local hospital of a town I used to live in, only to find that the hospital had difficulty finding technicians to operate it.

And we frequently hear of cases where hospital expansions are built, but there is no money for staff to fully service all the new beds the expansion created.

But it's all a bit of a moot point anyway, if we can't find a way to get enough GP's to provide the front line health care we all need. So I agree with maryjane's comment, that we need to solve this particular problem first.
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rustled
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by rustled »

Merry wrote:It's no good building new hospitals, or buying new medical diagnostic equipment, if you don't have the staff to utilize them.

I remember helping to raise funds to purchase a new x-ray machine for the local hospital of a town I used to live in, only to find that the hospital had difficulty finding technicians to operate it.

And we frequently hear of cases where hospital expansions are built, but there is no money for staff to fully service all the new beds the expansion created.

But it's all a bit of a moot point anyway, if we can't find a way to get enough GP's to provide the front line health care we all need. So I agree with maryjane's comment, that we need to solve this particular problem first.

There's quite a bit of movement there, too, and the expansions are part of the solution. For example:
Also included in the new tower is expanded space for the UBC Faculty of Medicine program.

“By providing a better experience to the next generation of health-care professionals we believe more of them will choose to live and work in our communities after they complete their training.” said Erwin Malzer, chair, Interior Health Board. “Interior Health provides a broad scope of specialized training and education for learners from all disciplines and is committed to providing employment and educational opportunities in our facilities.”

http://www.on-sitemag.com/construction/ ... 003954564/
It doesn't happen overnight, but it is happening.

ETA: I'd also think the over-crowded conditions in existing facilities are surely contributing to frustration among workers who take their jobs seriously, leading some to leave the field and discouraging others from entering. One can only imagine how difficult it is for health care professionals to deal with patients in hallways. So like Site C, it's still a matter of developing infrastructure we need instead of waiting until there's a demand for it (or, in this case, where there's already clear demand, enough workers to fully staff it).
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Re: Denying the obvious

Post by George+ »

We would have to double in population for a Site C to be needed.

Clark pursued Site C for LNG...oooopppsss!

And she stubbornly sticks to a Deas Island bridge when all the mayors tell
Her, that is not needed and not a priority.

Stubbornly costing us billions,

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