And they're off...

Discuss the upcoming elections here.
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Queen K
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Re: And they're off...

Post by Queen K »

I've long accepted that I'm in Socred Liberal territory.
And being so in tune with the underdog, I always, always register what amounts to be a protest vote.
As in, "there are others who need to be heard. Don't forget it."
I suppose you are going to have a problem with that.
Want your bags of leaves gone? Put a "free" sign on them out by the road so people can grab them.
BeingHuman
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Re: And they're off...

Post by BeingHuman »

I don't mind some BC Liberal leaders, particularly the photogenic ones.

Image
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Periods of cooperation between political parties shouldn't be taken for granted; they are a stunning human achievement ~ Paul Bloom
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Urbane
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Re: And they're off...

Post by Urbane »

I hope this happened during their lunch break:
https://twitter.com/CTVNewsChandler/sta ... 1031453696
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Queen K
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Re: And they're off...

Post by Queen K »

Gone Fishing, I see you have extensive experience in eating moldy cabbage, thanks for the tip not to :up:
I mean it when I said I'm cancelling your Liberal vote though.
You do know that we each only get one vote, right?
And even though your candidate may take the floor, I'm sure you'll be happy to know someone registered a protest vote when the BS hits the fan.
Want your bags of leaves gone? Put a "free" sign on them out by the road so people can grab them.
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neilsimon
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Re: And they're off...

Post by neilsimon »

Urbane wrote:I hope this happened during their lunch break:
https://twitter.com/CTVNewsChandler/sta ... 1031453696

I would hope so too, though from a couple of comments on the Twitter feed, it seems as if it was during the lunch break
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Urbane
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Re: And they're off...

Post by Urbane »

This is interesting:
http://www.electionprediction.org/2017_bc/index.php
Not long ago the NDP was ahead on the Election Prediction site but there has been strong movement toward the Liberals over the past week.
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Urban Cowboy
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Re: And they're off...

Post by Urban Cowboy »

BeingHuman wrote:I don't mind some BC Liberal leaders, particularly the photogenic ones.

Image
how to upload pictures on internet



What are you BH like two years old?

Have your fun. This time tomorrow you'll be pondering why the NDP lost yet again.
“We isolate now so when we gather again, no one is missing" - Unknown
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Drip_Torch
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Re: And they're off...

Post by Drip_Torch »

Queen K wrote:I've long accepted that I'm in Socred Liberal territory.
And being so in tune with the underdog, I always, always register what amounts to be a protest vote.
As in, "there are others who need to be heard. Don't forget it."
I suppose you are going to have a problem with that.


They say it takes all types Queen K. Matter of fact that's why I moved here - The AggregateIQ riding profile suggested my type was severely underrepresented.

I'm doing you one better.

I'm calling my lib campaign office and asking for a ride to my poll. I suspect it'll be a dichotomous experience of philosophically in sync, with someone I"m ethically a world away from.
Drip Torch - an upright and steadfast keeper of the flame, but when tilted sideways the contents spill and then our destiny is in the wind...
BeingHuman
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Re: And they're off...

Post by BeingHuman »

Old Techie wrote:
BeingHuman wrote:I don't mind some BC Liberal leaders, particularly the photogenic ones.

Image
how to upload pictures on internet



What are you BH like two years old?

Have your fun. This time tomorrow you'll be pondering why the NDP lost yet again.



Actually I'm being spontaneous, and having fun. For some of us "recreational posters" this is entertainment, for others, like you, this is more of a job.
Periods of cooperation between political parties shouldn't be taken for granted; they are a stunning human achievement ~ Paul Bloom
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: And they're off...

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Drip_Torch wrote: Matter of fact that's why I moved here - The AggregateIQ riding profile suggested my type was severely underrepresented.


what type is that?
LET'S GO BRANDON!

Justin Trudeau is a blight on our once great country.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: And they're off...

Post by The Green Barbarian »

BeingHuman wrote:

Actually I'm being spontaneous, and having fun. .


Seems more like you are choking on the bitter taste of ass-whooping number 5.
LET'S GO BRANDON!

Justin Trudeau is a blight on our once great country.
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Urban Cowboy
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Re: And they're off...

Post by Urban Cowboy »

BeingHuman wrote:Actually I'm being spontaneous, and having fun. For some of us "recreational posters" this is entertainment, for others, like you, this is more of a job.


"Recreational posters" is that what you're calling it now.

I'm willing to wager most would call it something else.

Flaming, trolling, baiting, that kind of thing, but that would be the grownups.
“We isolate now so when we gather again, no one is missing" - Unknown
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neilsimon
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Re: And they're off...

Post by neilsimon »

The Green Barbarian wrote:I disagree. All proportional representation does is reward bad ideas that have no place ever making it to our legislative bodies. Complete waste of time and resources.

I suspect you don't have any experience with PR then. It is well proven elsewhere and hugely reduces the chance that divisive policies and politicians get to have majority power.

Well that's nice, but it would have to go to a referendum. And prop rep. never wins. Why? Because it's a stupid form of voting, favored only by losers who would never get their bad ideas into parliament/legislature otherwise.

Enough with the ad hominem attacks. Can you argue against the issue without resorting to insults?

PR makes sure that a policy supported by a modest minority is not imposed on the majority, basically keeping bad ideas and bad/divisive politicians out of the legislature. It is a significant improvement on older, less advanced forms of democratic decision making. You would be hard pressed to find significant numbers of experts on electoral systems who would consider FPTP to be better than PR.
rustled
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Re: And they're off...

Post by rustled »

neilsimon wrote:
The Green Barbarian wrote:I disagree. All proportional representation does is reward bad ideas that have no place ever making it to our legislative bodies. Complete waste of time and resources.

I suspect you don't have any experience with PR then. It is well proven elsewhere and hugely reduces the chance that divisive policies and politicians get to have majority power.

Well that's nice, but it would have to go to a referendum. And prop rep. never wins. Why? Because it's a stupid form of voting, favored only by losers who would never get their bad ideas into parliament/legislature otherwise.

Enough with the ad hominem attacks. Can you argue against the issue without resorting to insults?

PR makes sure that a policy supported by a modest minority is not imposed on the majority, basically keeping bad ideas and bad/divisive politicians out of the legislature. It is a significant improvement on older, less advanced forms of democratic decision making. You would be hard pressed to find significant numbers of experts on electoral systems who would consider FPTP to be better than PR.

Seems to me there's gotta be a better way. A policy supported by a modest minority may be of vital importance to the health and well-being minority, and only seen as a "bad idea" by those who wouldn't benefit themselves.

Governing by majority cannot guarantee the genuine needs of the minority are being considered, much less met.

A more cooperative, less divisive form of government would be welcome. There's no reason opposition has to oppose. Weaver seems to get that. MP Dan Albas does, too.
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neilsimon
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Re: And they're off...

Post by neilsimon »

rustled wrote:Seems to me there's gotta be a better way. A policy supported by a modest minority may be of vital importance to the health and well-being minority, and only seen as a "bad idea" by those who wouldn't benefit themselves.

Yes, and since PR basically takes level of preference into account, it allows for strong preferences to get more traction than weak ones.

Governing by majority cannot guarantee the genuine needs of the minority are being considered, much less met.

True, but governing by minority will basically guarantee that the genuine needs of the majority are not being considered, much less met. As bad as PR is, FPTP is worse in pretty much every way, except for simplicity and count times. PR is still very simple, so much so that I have understood it, in detail, since I was 8 and as did my entire class in school.

A more cooperative, less divisive form of government would be welcome.

This is basically what PR gives us. Divisive politicians can't get enough broad support to be elected, resulting in lots of cooperation across party lines. Even when divisiveness does creep in, it tends to get removed at the next election. Basically, it means that the majority are not slaves to a minority.
Another benefit of PR is that it makes tactical voting relatively pointless. Especially with single transferable vote, you can put whoever you want at the top of your ballot and be sure that it will not be just a wasted vote, unlike FPTP where it is hard to vote for a better fit candidate if they are not as likely to get elected as a slightly less good fit candidate. Hence all of the not splitting the vote discussion.

There's no reason opposition has to oppose. Weaver seems to get that. MP Dan Albas does, too.

The opposition should oppose anything which is unlikely to get support from those who did not vote for the incumbent. Their job is to be the voice for those whose votes did not count. In PR, especially with STV, there is less need for this as the elected representatives more fully represent the voters.

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