Dejong lies no one falls for it

[mr.bandaid]

I happen to agree with you Merry, but let's not lose sight of which party took it upon themselves to set such a precedent.

It's important people take note of that, when they try to sift through all the nonsense posted.

Income tax was supposed to be a temporary thing for the war effort, but look at where we've come to with that.

Politicians just can't seem to bring themselves, to let go of an income stream, once it's in place.

Ironically in many threads on Castanet, it's the NDP supporters crying loudest about the Liberals engaging in such tactics, when they were not the ones who implemented it.

Are they really hoping we are too stupid, to realize who began such a practice?

Sometimes when I read things here, I get this picture in my head, of a school bully who throws the first punch, then gets all indignant, when his victim turns around and gives him a black eye.

Gosh? Who has been in power for 16 years and had every opportunity to reverse this?

[hobbyguy]

https://action.bcndp.ca/page/-/bcndp/docs/BC-NDP-Platform-2017.pdf

"Freeze BC Hydro rates and stop Christy Clark’s 42% increase in ICBC rates"

It does NOT say "freeze BC Hydro rates for two years" - which is what Horgan says now, and what the attackers of Mike DeJong would have you believe. It says "freeze BC Hydro rates".

So because it doesn't say what the NDP mean, does that mean the NDP would "stop Christy Clark's 42% increase in ICBC rates" by a) only increasing by 41% or b) increasing it by 65% or c) what?

Just who is fibbing here? The platform clearly states the NDP will freeze BC Hydro rates.

[Merry]

In fairness hobbyguy, I doubt anybody thought they meant they would freeze the rates forever.

[hobbyguy]

Of course they did. That's exactly what the NDP did in the 1990s when they stifled BC Hydro capital investments - and cost us a lot more later.

[flamingfingers]

Despite hobbyguy trying to derail the thread about deJong, now deJong says that reducing the MSP is an 'objective' - but how many partisan ads have we seen that tout "cutting MSP rates" in January 2018? If the 'economy' is so fantastic now, why not cut the rates NOW!! MSP rates are DOUBLE what we paid some short years ago and now the ChrstyLiberals think they should be lauded and credited by giving back HALF of what we have been fleeced for?

We are the ONLY province in Canada charged a flat rate for health premiums that do not even go to HEALTH CARE!!

[mr.bandaid]

Hey I said is in a couple of threads shortly after they announced this that they have a year to back out and I have very little doubt that they will. I have personally been lied to by the Liberal government and my union at the time before. I do not trust either of them.

[Urbane]

Despite hobbyguy trying to derail the thread about deJong, now deJong says that reducing the MSP is an 'objective' - but how many partisan ads have we seen that tout "cutting MSP rates" in January 2018? If the 'economy' is so fantastic now, why not cut the rates NOW!! MSP rates are DOUBLE what we paid some short years ago and now the ChrstyLiberals think they should be lauded and credited by giving back HALF of what we have been fleeced for?

We are the ONLY province in Canada charged a flat rate for health premiums that do not even go to HEALTH CARE!!

No, I don't think you're right. Unless you have more recent information I believe de Jong has said that it's an objective of the Liberal government to ELIMINATE the MSP premiums. He and the premier have both promised to halve the rates at the start of 2018 and de Jong has said that no further reductions or complete elimination will take place until the economy grows further. Now that's not what you claim that he said but that's what I'm reading as of two days ago. How about you tell us how the NDP plans to pay for the complete elimination of the MSP premiums?? You can't? No, you can't because Horgan doesn't know. A committee will meet and try to figure out something. That's not great leadership.

[mr.bandaid]

Seems he did make it a promise but hey, that's Ding Dong. I doubt it will ever happen under a Liberals Government.

http://www.straight.com/news/871821/bc- ... ear-budget

[hobbyguy]

The whole issue of "eliminating MSP premiums" is a political charade.

I know the NDP tooters will go nutso because they don't like to follow things through to logical conclusions, but in the separate thread about MSP premiums I made it clear that our MSP premium regime, as it stands in 2017, is more progressive than the methods used by other provinces to pay for health care. Look no further than the tax structures set by the NDP in Manitoba.

The entire thing is a populist "you are going to get something for nothing" ruse put up by NDP politicians who know better - or maybe they don't. That's why Horgan has no defined plan as to how he will balance the budget and eliminate MSP premiums, because he can't find a way to do it that isn't regressive.

As I have already shown, the total of income tax paid plus the MSP premiums is lower than what the NDP set in Manitoba as an alternative structure. And corporations will get a tax cut. So in the end, eliminating MSP premiums will not provide a break for anyone, and will likely wind up be a negative for the average citizen.

It will wind up giving a break to folks like me that don't need a break, all because the NDP wanted an election issue.

[mr.bandaid]

I think it is pretty clear to everyone except maybe you HG that the other provinces have MSP premiums rolled into taxes. I guess with that way of doing it the poor get a bit of a break while the well to do pay more. Not too sure I agree with that formula but it sure would be nice not to get that bill in mail every month. Like I said, if, and that is a big if now that Ding Dong has spoken, they do roll back MSP premiums next January it will only go back to the level they got it at in 2001. So though it is a savings it comes off as a hollow promise.

[hobbyguy]

So, the poverty line in BC is about $24,000 - for sake of argument $10,000 taxable income.

BC current tax regime = $506 income tax, zero MSP premiums.

Manitoba = $1,080 income tax.

Ooops. OK pick another number. $36,000 - $22,000 taxable income

BC current tax regime = $1,113 income tax + $264 MSP premiums = $1,377

Manitoba = $2,376 income tax

Oooops. Pick another number, $48,000 - $34,000 taxable income.

BC current tax regime = $1,720 income tax + $1,104 MSP premiums = $2,824

Manitoba = $3,437

Oooops. Pick another number, $60,000 - $46,000 taxable income.

BC current tax regime = $2,384 income tax + $1,800 MSP premium = $4,184

Manitoba = $5,167

Oooops.
(All numbers are close approximations, not exact, but clearly illustrative.)

So why did I pick Manitoba to compare to? Because the tax structure was set by a long standing NDP government.

So under the "income tax only" system of the Manitoba NDP a person below the poverty line pays over $500 MORE. A person with a barely adequate income pays $1,000 MORE. A person with an income on the low side of median pays $600 MORE. A person with an income on the high side of median pays $1,000 MORE.

Now I happen to be a great believer in progressive taxation, and in reasonable income redistribution. So from bottom to above median, the BC system progresses by a factor of 8. The Manitoba NDP system progresses by a factor of 5. Therefore I see the NDP system as more regressive than the BC system.

And that's why I oppose poorly thought out (still no plan from Horgan) political bumper sticker policy from the NDP. It does not work. But then I did the math - and the NDP don't seem to be able to.

So while DeJong might not have handled it with great aplomb, he did not lie, the NDP numbers will never add up, not because of politics, but because the math doesn't work - and the effects of the NDP ill thought through policy and lack of planning will result in poor, lower income, and median income folks in BC getting hosed. I don't want to see that. The NDP have lost the plot - again.

[mr.bandaid]

That is interesting $500.00 more hmmmmm. At the end of the year, when I tally up my MSP payments I pay $1,800.00 more.
DeJong hummed and hawwed because he knew this was going to get a poor response and there was no way to sugar coat his version of the truth about MSP Premiums. If the Liberals get in the MSP premiums stay where they are.

[hobbyguy]

NDP supporter doesn't read and follow the math in my post. Surprise, surprise surprise.

IF you are paying $1,800 per year MSP then you have over $42,000 adjusted net income. That means under the NDP plan you pay $600 per year more total - the $1,800 is already clearly shown in my post as included.

But that's ok, NDP math is like that. 1+1 = 19, 20-32 = +56 etc.

[George+]

Unless of course your Math is assuming one big extrapolation
Which is not necessarily true.

Manitoba may not equal B.C.

Ontario may equal B.C.
Hint.

[mr.bandaid]

You're right, I didn't read your math. Like you, math is boring and I nodded off half way through. All I said about the MSP is !: The cut will never happen with the Liberals and 2: I would rather pay it through taxes than on line every month.
If you can find a single post of mine where I said I was an NDP supporter than you can keep insulting me by saying so.
Ding Dong got caught is a little white one. He didn't like the fact that he did and pretty much admitted that they will do not such thing if elected. Funny what comes out when you're rattled.
I'm not so foolish as to think there is no cost to us for health care but for some reason what works for 11 other provinces is not for you or BC. Interesting that.
The other thing you did that is not cool is pretend to know what I make a year. You have no idea and it is really none of your business so please don't pull that again.