Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by The Green Barbarian »

lasnomadas wrote:
Secondly, if you're worried about how your children and grandchildren are going to be doing in the future, just look back to when you were a child. Your parents wanted a better life for you too, didn't they? But it didn't happen, did it? Your parents were probably the last generation to have actually had a better life than their parents, and do you know why? Because during your generation, there was a subtle but devastating shift in the way we are governed.
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This is such a giant crock of BS. Of course my life is better than my parents. Both of them immigrated to this country, and both of them lived pretty hard lives as they arrived as kids and their parents (my grandparents) had to work like dogs just to get going. Back then people didn't arrive on airplanes with a grinning airhead PM waiting to greet them with winter jackets, back-packs and welfare cheques. You arrived with nothing, and were expected to pull up your socks and bust your guts. And that's what they (my parents) had to do. They both were the first kids to get university degrees in their families, and both became teachers. They paid for their educations out of their own pockets, no welfare, no student loans, no help from parents, no RESP's, nothing. And they did that so that they could help me and my siblings out when it was our turn to go to school. We (me and my siblings) have it so much better off than my parents did. And now I see our kids (their grand-kids) have it 10 times better off than we did. In fact, if we compared our up-bringing to what our kids have now, we'd have been considered to be living in poverty. As Tevia says in Fiddler on the Roof, "we were so happy, we didn't know how miserable we were."

This whole "the last generation had it so much better than us" is such a giant load of crap. Such horrible lies. Being told by really horrible people. Shame on you. I really despise people who purposely bend the truth and revise history for their own political gain. You will never convince me that your purposes aren't inherently evil. Because only those who lie on purpose are trying to commit evil.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by rustled »

The Green Barbarian wrote:...
This whole "the last generation had it so much better than us" is such a giant load of crap. ...

Totally agree, GB.

It's a nonsense cliche, intended to get people to vote emotionally and for a party that promotes more government programs, more taxes, more bureaucracy. (The most expensive and least efficient way to address most problems is through government bureaucracy.)

It's useful for people who truly believe life would be better with more government programs, more taxes, and less room for people to prioritize their own and their communities' resources differently, less self-reliance, and less personal responsibility for the choices they make.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by lasnomadas »

^^ Ooh.......looks like I touched a nerve. I'm sorry I offended someone who views of 'a better life' is based only on a monetary vision. And even that vision is distorted, considering a very large majority of young people today can't afford to buy their own homes, or even rent in a city where they work.......IF they could even find a job that pays well enough to live without several roommates to share the cost, that is. Young people are moving to areas where they might be able to afford to live, but can't find work in those places. Oh yes, they are SO much better off than their parents, who never had to live in their parents' basement for years with no hope of ever living independently.

However, I wasn't referring to the financial side of the stark truth that the previous generation had a better life than this one. Ask the parents whose children have died on the streets from drug overdoses how many of their contemporaries died this way? Ask how many of their friends when they were school-age were so obese that they couldn't participate in sports, or how many were socially *bleep* because they spent all their time playing computer games instead of playing outdoors with other kids.

So before you start whining about how hard life was for your parents and grandparents, perhaps you should take a good, long, hard look around you and see how 'easy' the millennials have it today.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by OldIslander »

Trying valiantly to stay within spitting distance of the topic, :200: I have never understood people who join a party and vote blindly -- exactly as they are told to vote by the leader of that party -- for their entire voting careers. Where's the intelligence in that -- simply voting for whatever candidate enters the race in your riding, wearing your chosen party's colours? The 'turnip' that popped up earlier in this thread, could vote just as effectively as folks who follow this doctrine. :skippingsheep:

Doesn't it make more sense to look at the collection of 'dead wood' running in every election and try to choose the best one -- regardless of their party? The one that just might -- against all odds -- care more about doing some good for the constituents in his/her riding, than getting re-elected?

Unfortunately, this is usually an exercise of trying to pick the one that will hurt us the least. But at least we're giving it some thought.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by lasnomadas »

^^ That's exactly my sentiments on the topic and I voted accordingly on Saturday. (Sorry I got off-topic for awhile there, but I needed to set the record straight about the decline of society today.)
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by JLives »

rustled wrote:Unlike you, I am well aware of exactly how long the construction's been going on. Planning stages, too.

But hey, you go right on believing what you want to believe. As I said, your posts make it pretty clear you'll only see what you want to see. Not up to me to shatter your illusions.


Me too, my partner is working on that project. It's going exactly how it was supposed to.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by The Green Barbarian »

lasnomadas wrote:^^ Ooh.......looks like I touched a nerve. I'm sorry I offended someone who views of 'a better life' is based only on a monetary vision.


Once again, just complete crap. Sanctimonious virtue-signaling leftist drivel.

So before you start whining about how hard life was for your parents and grandparents,


Oh good grief. Here we go. Because my life experience with my immigrant parents and grandparents (and I'm sure millions of other immigrants who came to Canada during that time frame) was hard hard work, it doesn't fit your nonsensical narrative, so therefore I am "whining". As I said, shame on you. Hang your head in shame for trying to pawn off this fantasy, all in the name of something political and inherently evil.

perhaps you should take a good, long, hard look around you and see how 'easy' the millennials have it today.


I do, and I have. Anyone trying to equate what my grandparents and parents went through to what "millennials" are going through today, and spinning the massive lie that the millennials have it harder, is just plain lying. You are deliberately trying to mislead these young people solely for political gain, and you should be ashamed for doing that. So horribly ashamed.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by The Green Barbarian »

lasnomadas wrote: but I needed to set the record straight about the decline of society today.)


and you failed miserably.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by lasnomadas »

^^It's okay GB. You just go ahead and live your life with your head buried firmly in the sand. My grandparents were immigrants as well. So was my father, and yes, they worked hard to give us a better life, and we did. My own children had a pretty good life as well, in the beginning. But something happened about 35 - 40 years ago that changed everything. What it was, if I remember correctly, was the Vietnam War and the aftermath; the elections of Reagan, Thatcher, and Mulroney, and globalization. The whole world went to hell in a handbasket after that, and we're continuing down that slippery slope to disaster.

Those who close their eyes, plug their ears, and hum while pretending to think all is well need to wake up and smell the coffee.......or should I say 'the corruption'?
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by rustled »

OldIslander wrote:Trying valiantly to stay within spitting distance of the topic, :200: I have never understood people who join a party and vote blindly -- exactly as they are told to vote by the leader of that party -- for their entire voting careers. Where's the intelligence in that -- simply voting for whatever candidate enters the race in your riding, wearing your chosen party's colours? The 'turnip' that popped up earlier in this thread, could vote just as effectively as folks who follow this doctrine. :skippingsheep:

Doesn't it make more sense to look at the collection of 'dead wood' running in every election and try to choose the best one -- regardless of their party? The one that just might -- against all odds -- care more about doing some good for the constituents in his/her riding, than getting re-elected?

Unfortunately, this is usually an exercise of trying to pick the one that will hurt us the least. But at least we're giving it some thought.

Yes, I've done this previously, OldIslander. I voted for a very smart, capable woman who ran for the NDP. She did a good job for us in our riding. Unfortunately, the NDP didn't do a good job provincially and has since moved further and further from the values I believe in.

You mention voting for a turnip. Would that Dan Ashton were as harmless as a turnip. Thing is, even though I'm absolutely disgusted with him, I recognize the futility in voting for the NDP or Green parties when they are promising to do more of what I do not like: bringing in more expensive bureaucracy that makes it more difficult for people like myself to live a simple, decent life by ensuring we must pony up for things we do not believe are better for our society.

lasnomadas seems to feel his/her measuring stick of what constitutes a good life is superior to mine. I was born to parents raised in high-society by grandparents whose grit and determination got them where they wanted to be, but I was raised in poverty (by Canadian standards, of course) when that high-society marriage failed, in the days before the social safety net was ready to make life easier for single moms.

I can tell lasnomadas, although I'm sure he/she wouldn't care to understand, that my value system is quite different from his/hers, having sampled what it's like to have government provide child care so Mom could work, and having also sampled an even lower standard of living when she decided to move in with my stepfather instead. And I can say unequivocally the choice I made, that my children would be able to come home after school to one of their parents instead of going into care, had everything to do with what I truly value. I absolutely do not begrudge the parents who are comfortable with institutional care, but I very much resent that our society has embraced this model of family life to the point there's very little choice for parents today. For example, no advocate of $10 day care has ever explained to me how that works for families who prefer shiftwork so one of them can be home with the kids. But they get to foot the bill for everyone who does fit the mould. To me, this is terribly unfair.

I could go on, but I think you get my point: If someone I respected was running for each party, I would choose Liberal because I simply cannot support the policies of the other parties, and those policies will have a greater impact on the society we live in than "whether or not Dan Ashton deserves to be re-elected" ever will. This ain't no popularity contest. Voting against Dan Ashton just because I don't like his lack of integrity, helping elect a party whose policies I cannot support, makes no sense.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by The Green Barbarian »

lasnomadas wrote:^^It's okay GB. You just go ahead and live your life with your head buried firmly in the sand.


Just because I don't want to cling to lies to push a disgusting leftist political agenda and focus on reality instead doesn't mean my head is buried in the sand. It just means I don't think the way you do, and I am extremely grateful to my parents for that. They taught me not to complain and whine, and never ever depend on the government for anything. In fact, the government's best behavior is to just stay out of the way.

My grandparents were immigrants as well. So was my father, and yes, they worked hard to give us a better life, and we did.


So are you now "whining" about your grandparents too? That was the biggest insult and dumbest part of your post. Telling the truth about your background is "whining" if it doesn't suit the diseased leftist narrative. And for that good sir, you should hang your head in shame.

Those who close their eyes, plug their ears, and hum while pretending to think all is well need to wake up and smell the coffee.......or should I say 'the corruption'?


I sure smell it every time I see Horgan speak.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by lasnomadas »

I appreciate your input, 'rustled' and your explanation as to why you vote for the BC Liberals, but it still makes no sense to me. You despise the parties who want to provide a safety net for those British Columbians who are going through exactly what you went through growing up. You will vote for a candidate who you cannot respect (for good reason) and vote for a party that is so callous that they let people take their own lives over the mistreatment of the Premier and everyone in the Ministries involved. You will vote for a party that couldn't care less if the indigent, mentally ill, elderly, or abandoned die in the most horrendous circumstances.

So you voted for a good candidate, but it turned out the party she represented wasn't up to your standards. Well, guess what? None of them are living up to the standards we expect from them, but the BC Liberals are by far the worst. Even the Harper Conservatives couldn't hold a candle to their corruption.

I'm sorry if you feel that my values are different from yours. I happen to think we have similar values, but judge our politicians differently, that's all. I'd also like to add that if certain commenters on this thread who are constantly making rude remarks in order to show their agreement with your opinions were to miraculously agree with something I wrote, I'd feel insulted.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by rustled »

lasnomadas wrote:I appreciate your input, 'rustled' and your explanation as to why you vote for the BC Liberals, but it still makes no sense to me. You despise the parties who want to provide a safety net for those British Columbians who are going through exactly what you went through growing up. You will vote for a candidate who you cannot respect (for good reason) and vote for a party that is so callous that they let people take their own lives over the mistreatment of the Premier and everyone in the Ministries involved. You will vote for a party that couldn't care less if the indigent, mentally ill, elderly, or abandoned die in the most horrendous circumstances.

So you voted for a good candidate, but it turned out the party she represented wasn't up to your standards. Well, guess what? None of them are living up to the standards we expect from them, but the BC Liberals are by far the worst. Even the Harper Conservatives couldn't hold a candle to their corruption.

I'm sorry if you feel that my values are different from yours. I happen to think we have similar values, but judge our politicians differently, that's all. I'd also like to add that if certain commenters on this thread who are constantly making rude remarks in order to show their agreement with your opinions were to miraculously agree with something I wrote, I'd feel insulted.

You're seeing my comments through your personal bias. As a child, I vastly preferred having less to eat, sharing my bed with a sibling, and wearing nothing but hand-me-downs in order to be able to come home to one of my parents at the end of the school day. So I will NOT vote for a party that will institute a daycare policy designed to make it even more necessary for more children to go into more care, nor will I cast my vote for a party that will tax all of us to make that vision of the future a reality. The safety net is far better than it was when I was a child, and I believe there's a happy medium to everything.

The rest of your presumptions are just that, presumptions, a result of foisting your own belief system on others, including the bit about her party not being "up to" my "standards". WADR, I find your hyperbole on behalf of the downtrodden as emotionally charged and unrealistic as your beliefs about the tower at PGH, and it's interesting to me that you'll suggest I judge politicians differently than you do, because I won't use my vote the way you did. (Indeed, I find your inferences about my experiences, my grasp of social issues, and my ability to think things through quite arrogant, although you are of course entirely entitled to your opinion.)

So, while you're all about defeating corruption with your vote (and I truly do wish you luck with that), I'll be more pragmatic with mine by using it to vote for the party with the policies I believe are better for our future. If you don't get that, it's entirely okay. It's not really something I feel I have to make others understand. We simply disagree on what's most important, and that's that.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by lasnomadas »

Just one question,'rustled', and then we can put this discussion to bed. What exactly IS most important to you? I'm having a bit of trouble understanding why my opinion is so offensive to you. Perhaps we're just having trouble communicating. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.........honest.

On second thought, after reading some of your comments on the 'Making stuff up again' thread, I retract the part about having trouble communicating. You obviously want to start an argument.......why? You know I didn't lie about the PRH tower. I just drove by it last week, and there were two big cranes there that weren't there the last time I drove by. In fact, there was nothing but a parking lot there the last time I drove by, and it really wasn't that long ago.
Last edited by lasnomadas on May 1st, 2017, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are you voting not *for* a party, but AGAINST a party?

Post by rustled »

lasnomadas wrote:Just one question,'rustled', and then we can put this discussion to bed. What exactly IS most important to you? I'm having a bit of trouble understanding why my opinion is so offensive to you. Perhaps we're just having trouble communicating. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.........honest.

The economy.

You're opinion does not offend me in the least. I'm of the Eleanor Roosevelt school of thought: no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Similarly, taking offense is a choice. It does seem arrogant to me for anyone to presume they have a better grasp of the truth, that they've grappled more thoroughly with the issues, or that they make better choices than others, simply because they have come to a different conclusion as to the best way to use their vote. It's up to you to decide the best way to use your vote, and you needn't defend nor explain your decision. It's up to me to decide the best way for me to use mine.

Understanding what motivates others to vote for or against may be interesting, but it's not essential, and it's not something I feel compelled to pass judgement on.

My feathers remain unruffled.

Enjoy your evening.

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