The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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rustled
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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JollyGreenBully wrote:
rustled wrote:Okay, now I think you're just being intentionally silly. If my mentally disabled family member who is working in retail has been paid well over minimum wage for years, I very much doubt there's even the remotest possibility "80-90%" of people working in retail stores are being paid minimum wage.


Nope, not being intentionally silly.

Why exactly do you keep selling your disabled family member short and acting as though just because he / she has accomplished something that everyone can? The mentally challenged people I know make up for their deficits in other ways like having great emotional intelligence or superb social skills. I don't doubt some employer found value in this person, but it has nothing to do with others making minimum wage - mentally handicapped or not.

Exactly, JGB (my bold). It's just plain silly to suggest 80-90% of people in retail are stuck at minimum wage, when you are well aware everyone can move up from there.

An employer certainly has found value in "this person", and has been patient and realistic in adding to her responsibilities. They can afford to do this at the rate they currently pay, which is why when there's a situation that could be used to let her go, they continue to keep her on and help her through it. That's my point, here: The employer currently has that option, valuing her as an employee and a human being. It's an option people like you are jeopardizing by trying to force them to pay her what they'd pay someone who required far less training and far less patience, who could more quickly come up to speed on changes, who could far more easily take on more responsibility.

I find a lot of NDP promises share this myopia. They can only see part of the picture, and are not prepared to even consider the unintended consequences of their actions. They like to believe they're more aware of the issues, but they're not prepared to understand anything that doesn't suit their crusade. Especially how their crusade actually makes things worse for people. They want so badly to believe they're sticking it to the "evil employers", they ignore how they're sticking it to harder-to-employ folk. These folk are receiving far more consideration and respect from their "evil" employers than from the crusaders.

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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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George+ wrote:The NDP plan has been costed.
.


It's actually been weighed and measured, and found wanting.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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rustled wrote:Exactly, JGB (my bold). It's just plain silly to suggest 80-90% of people in retail are stuck at minimum wage, when you are well aware everyone can move up from there.


Not what I said at all. I said that you using an example of one person achieving something (regardless of a mental disability) doesn't mean that everyone in the world can achieve the same thing. It's an inane argument. It's like saying, "well that guy over there is a professional athlete therefore everyone can be one."

Try talking to people who work in retail stores sometime. They make make minimum wage unless they're managers or supervisors of some kind.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

Post by The Green Barbarian »

JollyGreenBully wrote:
Try talking to people who work in retail stores sometime..


I talk to my nephew all the time. He's happy to have a job and an employer who will work with the hours he has available. He understands that his worth to Rona right now isn't what it will be when he gains experience and knowledge. I get the whole "poor me" thing you are trying to peddle here, but really, it's not going to garner much sympathy. Jacking wages way up because a few people you claim to know are stuck perpetually earning minimum wage isn't enough to cause mass unemployment. The law of unintended consequences, something the NDP just never understands.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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Interesting how it's the same group of Christy Clark BC Liberal Lap Dogs that defend keeping people in poverty while giving Corporations MILLIONS in hand outs and blame the NDP for their selfishness..

Basic economics says if you put more money in the hands of the people who consume products and spend it (that's why they are called consumers) that will stimulate the economy. If you put more money in the hands of the people who hoard it away for themselves like Corporations the opposite will happen.

I defy anyone on here who actually has a job and isn't just sitting in a basement somewhere eating cheerios to ask their bosses what they would do if the government handed them a bunch of new cash and see what their responses are. Let's see how many would run out and hire new employees that they don't need because CC says they would in her Tax Payer funded ad campaigns.

Sorry folks but past performance is the best indicator of future performance so a few would hire new staff but only if they already needed them, a few would use it to expand but again only if it was already needed but the vast majority would put it straight into their bank accounts and that is a "proven" fact.

The fact is that rising costs of EVERYTHING is fast outpacing wage increases and something has to change and the only thing we know for sure is it won't change under our current Liberal dictatorship.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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JollyGreenBully wrote:
rustled wrote:Exactly, JGB (my bold). It's just plain silly to suggest 80-90% of people in retail are stuck at minimum wage, when you are well aware everyone can move up from there.


Not what I said at all. I said that you using an example of one person achieving something (regardless of a mental disability) doesn't mean that everyone in the world can achieve the same thing. It's an inane argument. It's like saying, "well that guy over there is a professional athlete therefore everyone can be one."

Try talking to people who work in retail stores sometime. They make make minimum wage unless they're managers or supervisors of some kind.

It doesn't wash, JGB. You can either post that I'm "selling my disabled family member short", or you can acknowledge that people are capable of working their way up from minimum wage. Your comparison to professional athletes is gross hyperbole. Anyone can work their way to better fitness. Anyone can work their way up from minimum wage.

My sister works in retail. She hasn't made minimum for years. Are you seriously suggesting she's an anomaly?

And you've completely sidestepped any consideration for what happens to people like her if minimum wage skyrockets. WADR, I find your focus in this matter terribly inconsiderate and unkind. You're prepared to ignore the logical outcome of your crusade for people like my sister, because the issue is more important than the people.

Idealism must be tempered with pragmatism. There's no point putting policies in place that cause harm.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

Post by JollyGreenBully »

krocky wrote:Interesting how it's the same group of Christy Clark BC Liberal Lap Dogs that defend keeping people in poverty while giving Corporations MILLIONS in hand outs and blame the NDP for their selfishness..


Remember when that lady started crying in an interview with Trudeau and stated she was living in poverty despite earning 50k a year? The same people saying it's OK for BC residents to earn minimum wage created thread after thread about how this poor woman was barely able to survive and had such a hard life and so on.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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krocky wrote:Interesting how it's the same group of Christy Clark BC Liberal Lap Dogs that defend keeping people in poverty .


I still don't even know what this means. "Keeping people in poverty". Why are these people "in poverty"? Why would they depend on anybody, especially government, to "get them out of poverty"? Why can't they help themselves? What is preventing that? What is "poverty"? I don't understand that one either, as per some peoples' definitions, I grew up in poverty too, and yet was just fine, as apparently I didn't have an angry leftist screaming at me that I was supposed to be miserable and blame people for where I was in life.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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JollyGreenBully wrote:
Remember when that lady started crying in an interview with Trudeau and stated she was living in poverty despite earning 50k a year? .


She actually didn't say that. She had too much pride to pull the "p" word out. What a prime example though of leftist ignorance. The issue wasn't that her employer should pay her more, the issue was idiotic leftist energy policies. Instead of always looking to increase the revenue side, look at cutting the expense side. And in this case, the expense was high energy costs due to stupid Ontario Liberal policies regarding high energy choices like solar and wind. Just the dumbest possible energy policy in Canada, and possibly all of North America. Yet another example of why you never give the keys to the kingdom to leftists.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

Post by JollyGreenBully »

rustled wrote:Anyone can work their way up from minimum wage.


Except they can't. You and your family members aren't the only people who exist in the world which is exactly why I asked for opinions from people earning minimum wage right now as adults. The same regulars post in every topic so it's difficult to get varied answers and opinions. It's just the same people bashing leftists and saying the sky is the limit with wages if one works hard enough.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

Post by The Green Barbarian »

JollyGreenBully wrote:
Except they can't..


Except that they can.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

Post by JollyGreenBully »

The Green Barbarian wrote:She actually didn't say that. She had too much pride to pull the "p" word out. What a prime example though of leftist ignorance. The issue wasn't that her employer should pay her more, the issue was idiotic leftist energy policies. Instead of always looking to increase the revenue side, look at cutting the expense side. And in this case, the expense was high energy costs due to stupid Ontario Liberal policies regarding high energy choices like solar and wind. Just the dumbest possible energy policy in Canada, and possibly all of North America. Yet another example of why you never give the keys to the kingdom to leftists.


I'm not getting into another discussion where all you're going to do is call people you don't like leftist losers. I added my perspective politely.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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JollyGreenBully wrote:
I'm not getting into another discussion where all you're going to do is call people you don't like leftist losers. I added my perspective politely.


Ha ha of course, you can't acknowledge when caught out again, so you just post this nonsense instead. What you should say is "oh yeah you're right on that one" and move on. You were dead wrong about that woman "living in poverty". She was no where near poverty until the horrible Wynne Liberals got control of the energy policies of Ontario, and made insanely stupid decisions. Her plight had nothing to do with earning minimum wage, and everything to do with artificially inflated energy costs created by brainless leftists.
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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The Green Barbarian wrote:
JollyGreenBully wrote:Try talking to people who work in retail stores sometime..

I talk to my nephew all the time. He's happy to have a job and an employer who will work with the hours he has available. He understands that his worth to Rona right now isn't what it will be when he gains experience and knowledge. I get the whole "poor me" thing you are trying to peddle here, but really, it's not going to garner much sympathy. Jacking wages way up because a few people you claim to know are stuck perpetually earning minimum wage isn't enough to cause mass unemployment. The law of unintended consequences, something the NDP just never understands.

Oh yes, Rona only makes tens of millions in profits so I understand them paying minimum wage. Maybe that's why their selling out to Lowes, they heard an increase to minimum wage might be coming and they would be going bankrupt like all the restaurants so they got out ahead of time. ONLY a BCLLD could believe such nonsense.

If you think condoning poverty in support of corporate greed is how it should be, you might be a Liberal..
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Re: The direct result of the NDP's $15 minimum wage proposal

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krocky wrote:Oh yes, Rona only makes tens of millions in profits so I understand them paying minimum wage.


Or maybe that's what people starting out at Rona are worth. My nephew definitely is. Paying him more than minimum wage at this point would just be stupid. He has to learn the ropes first. As does everyone else who starts a job like that without any experience or knowledge.

If you think condoning poverty in support of corporate greed is how it should be, you might be a Liberal..


if you can use phrases like "condoning poverty" and "corporate greed" in the same sentence, you are a communist.
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