Still not a priority

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khutchi
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Still not a priority

Post by khutchi »

Really speaks to what we are as a city that we have (near) record breaking water levels/flooding and not one mention of our city council's recent failing report card on community climate action.

https://kelownapublishing.escribemeetin ... entId=7055.

From the OCP : "working towards reducing community greenhouse gas emissions by 33% (from 2007 levels) by 2020"

Our current Progress:
2007: 665,234 tonnes CO2
2010: 641,012 tonnes CO2
2012: 642,262 tonnes CO2 (3.5% drop from 2007, increased levels from 2010)

Now this was under a previous council's tenure but as someone who follows very municipal politics closely (Federal and provincial never really did it for me), I will bet anyone the last 5 years have NOT seen a reduction in emissions (BTW where is all this data anyways [icon_lol2.gif]). If they did drop, it would be less than 1000 tonnes. We simply have made no effort to take this issue seriously. When disaster strikes lots of people chip in to fill sandbags and brace shorelines, but the thought of riding a bike/walking/bussing instead of driving is revolting (Remember 55% of Kelowna's GHG emissions come from Transportation). And of course it's revolting. that would be actually be making a lasting change.

BTW Next week is bike to work week so there has never a been a better time to start thinking about shrinking your carbon footprint (Shameless plug for BTWW :up: ).

Btw, this is NOT a debate on whether climate change affects water levels. There are countless studies/science that put a direct link between annual average temperatures and snow melt leading to higher water levels. Even the city openly admits this.

https://kelownapublishing.escribemeetin ... entId=7056

Perhaps the only debate is that it's not our fault because we had dropped the ball and passed the point of no return long, long ago (e.g Kyoto protocol).

So it's great how our community is rallying to adapt to this crisis and love the idea of a thread, but while you are at it @ferri might as well make a flooding 2019, Flooding 2024, Flooding 2026 forum now...
"History is like a slingshot... the more you go back, the further you'll go."
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Jlabute
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Re: Still not a priority

Post by Jlabute »

khutchi wrote:Really speaks to what we are as a city that we have (near) record breaking water levels/flooding and not one mention of our city council's recent failing report card on community climate action.
Thats because this flood has nothing to do with 'global' warming. It is a 200 year event as the mayor called it. Last time was 1948 during a period of cooling

https://kelownapublishing.escribemeetin ... entId=7055.

From the OCP : "working towards reducing community greenhouse gas emissions by 33% (from 2007 levels) by 2020"
Our current Progress:
2007: 665,234 tonnes CO2
2010: 641,012 tonnes CO2
2012: 642,262 tonnes CO2 (3.5% drop from 2007, increased levels from 2010)

actually this is amazing! If Kelowna population in 2007 was 108,000, and in 2012 120,000, then per capita CO2 production went from 6.16T to 5.35T, an improvement of 13% in 5 years, and 8 years to go(from 2012).. sounds like we are on track without even caring one bit about climate change. Many polls suggest that climate change is one of the top three priorities of about 10% of Canadians... so probably the #1 priority to 3% of Canadians with the most popular priorities being economy, health care, crime, etc, etc. There is a tendancy for humans to adopt better ways of doing things, better fuels, technologies, and so forth. 1000 years ago we burned hay and crap, 800 years ago we burned wood, 500 years ago we burned coal, now we burn more efficient fuels all without coercment or painful taxation. The carbon tax is wrong. The IPCC is a corrupt socialist movement interested in global wealth redistribution and power. Mankind will improve on its own without fear and panic. If the gov wants to pay me, I'll take public transportation. It's better than being taxed into poverty and serves the purpose.

Now this was under a previous council's tenure but as someone who follows very municipal politics closely (Federal and provincial never really did it for me), I will bet anyone the last 5 years have NOT seen a reduction in emissions (BTW where is all this data anyways [icon_lol2.gif]). If they did drop, it would be less than 1000 tonnes. We simply have made no effort to take this issue seriously. When disaster strikes lots of people chip in to fill sandbags and brace shorelines, but the thought of riding a bike/walking/bussing instead of driving is revolting (Remember 55% of Kelowna's GHG emissions come from Transportation). And of course it's revolting. that would be actually be making a lasting change.
Why is CO2 revolting? CO2 is a necessary and almost undetectable portion of our atmosphere. What do you expect CO2 to do? Go up? Go down? Maintaining an exact ppm concentration is impossible, are you expecting that? What level is best and why? Once CO2 drops < 200ppm plants begin dying off. You want CO2 to drop? Most plants thrive at levels close to 600ppm and I am sure you wouldn't notice any difference in global temperatures. The earth has greened significantly making plants more robust and healthy thanks to CO2 requiring less energy to create the same amount of food.

BTW Next week is bike to work week so there has never a been a better time to start thinking about shrinking your carbon footprint (Shameless plug for BTWW :up: ).

Btw, this is NOT a debate on whether climate change affects water levels. There are countless studies/science that put a direct link between annual average temperatures and snow melt leading to higher water levels. Even the city openly admits this.
Climate change does affect water levels. That's why we find 13000 year old human artifacts and living spaces 400 feet under water off the coast of BC. Levels always change especially coming out of an ice age, or going in to an ice age. The rate of level change today is a lot less than what it was 13000 years ago... all natural too. A few millimeters/year today, 13000 years ago it was 20 times greater.

https://kelownapublishing.escribemeetin ... entId=7056

Perhaps the only debate is that it's not our fault because we had dropped the ball and passed the point of no return long, long ago (e.g Kyoto protocol).
There is no emergency. You're too young to remember back in the 70's everyone was panicking over global cooling. If you think a tiny bit of warming causes panic, global cooling can actually kill off most of the worlds population.

So it's great how our community is rallying to adapt to this crisis and love the idea of a thread, but while you are at it @ferri might as well make a flooding 2019, Flooding 2024, Flooding 2026 forum now.
for a 200 year event, ferry can make threads for Flooding 2217, and Flooding 2417 :-)
Huxley - "For him, skepticism is the highest of duties; blind faith the one unpardonable sin."
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Graham Adder
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Re: Still not a priority

Post by Graham Adder »

My vehicle, my home and all the nasty things I do to add to the GHG effects coupled with all of yours and yours and yours, your and yours too, has a near immeasurable effect on the global issue we're facing.

I used to be a part of the "don't drive/get smaller cars/ride bikes/share/bike camp, until I got some of the inside info on where the problems really stem from.

Until I see changes in the entire mining industry, forestry and the manufacturing sectors, I'm not willing to try to be a part of the change that will offer zero return on my investment of time, effort and consideration.

China, Russia and our beloved puking smog factory Canada, are HUGE contributors to GHG due to our/their filthy allowances by Gov't in the name of profits. They muddy the clarity by speaking of needs for more and more. Those promises (think health care) never materialize, but the ask for more money is constant. We get so blind to thinking we need, need, need that we forget about the underlying costs of all that mining.

You Christy Clark supporters make me ill when I think of what you support, but that's another thread.

So, save the world by riding my bike no longer means Jack Schlitt to me. I drive everywhere in my fuel guzzling pig of a tank, and I enjoy the scenery while we have it.
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khutchi
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Re: Still not a priority

Post by khutchi »

@Jlabute: I'm not sure GHG emissions are something that we should be measuring "per capita" since the planet doesn't care about about how many people emitted them. It's not like the ozone layer gives us any credit and degrades less because there are more people. That just is another problem in itself.

When you said "Many polls suggest that climate change is one of the top three priorities of about 10% of Canadians", I guess you were referring to this http://globalnews.ca/news/2366032/clima ... ians-poll/. But this doesn't surprise me since climate change isn't really in my top three priorities either. The only reason GHG reduction strategy is in the OCP is that the provincial government mandates that section to be in there. In MY perfect world we just scrap any section of the OCP if we are not going to perform on it. Governments should do what they say they are going to do and if they don't do it quit the charade (*cough LNG cough*). I do believe in the problem of climate change (of course it was preached as gospel in university) but i care about honest and efficient government more.

@ Graham Adder. 100% Agree China and US blow us off the map. But i don't really agree with you when you say "Until I see changes in the entire mining industry, forestry and the manufacturing sectors, I'm not willing to try to be a part of the change that will offer zero return on my investment of time, effort and consideration."

for me I know when i ride my bike to and from work and leave the car at home I prevent 1 metric ton/year of CO2 (et al.) from being released to the atmosphere . I know it's a pittance and affects the world 0% but i still do it because it's the change i want to see in the world. I'm simply not entilted to get a juicy return on everything i do with no real effort.
Last edited by khutchi on May 25th, 2017, 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"History is like a slingshot... the more you go back, the further you'll go."
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Graham Adder
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Re: Still not a priority

Post by Graham Adder »

khutchi wrote:for me I know when i ride my bike to and from work and leave the car at home I prevent 1 metric ton of CO2 (et al.) from being released to the atmosphere . I know it's a pittance and affects the world 0% but i still do it because it's the change i want to see in the world. I'm simply not entilted to get a juicy return on everything i do with no real effort.


I am the change as well, but I also have learned where to put my energy and how to pick my battles.
I'm MUCH more inclined to believe that teaching PEOPLE to live a better existence will fetch far greater rewards in the big picture.
Teach from the ground up.
Teach kids to bend over to smell the flower, rather than pick it.
Teach them the value of each living thing and how we (all living things) need to coexist the best we can to make this giant eco-sphere work.
It's only through the following generations that this mess will be fixed.
Our generation(s) will not change and will not have time to repair the damages caused by us and previous generations.
Our ONLY hope, is the children.
"Teach them well".

For me, it is only my selfish side that wants to cut down on my driving. It will make ME feel better. It won't do anything for the rest of you. It would be a choice that only serves to feed my own want for self gratification.
If I instill good values and self recognition into a child, that action/intent serves a much great need as well as a much greater picture than my selfish want. That's where I intend to put my focus and energy. Seems to me to have greater potential of doing something positive and effective.
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Re: Still not a priority

Post by GalaxyzAway »

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Jlabute
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Re: Still not a priority

Post by Jlabute »

Although we have heard that this is a 1 in 200 year event, or a 1 in 100 year event, the word of the Kelowna Mayor in the 'Vancouver Sun' is that this event is BECAUSE of CLIMATE CHANGE and it will happen more often! I see no reliable data or models to support this and I would put it in the category of Al Gore Alarmism Science. In other words, if you live along the lake, RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY! What-ever this 'talk' may be, it will be done without the knowledge of Kelowna and will focus on how to secretly take more money from your wallet.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news ... nagan-lake


Basran said. “Climate change is real and I think we’re going to see weather events like this a lot more frequently. We’re going to have to talk about what needs to be done to address what is becoming the new normal.”

What is "A LOT" more frequently? Show us your models? Will this be a 1 in 5 year event now??
Huxley - "For him, skepticism is the highest of duties; blind faith the one unpardonable sin."
PDT
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Re: Still not a priority

Post by PDT »

Well, to be fair, he does say "I think". As a critic, where's your proof that he's wrong? Just because what you think is in disagreement with what he thinks, doesn't mean you're right and he's wrong. Where are your models?
lesliepaul
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Re: Still not a priority

Post by lesliepaul »

For arguments sake............I don't think it will happen again for at least 50 years.........so there! In fact, I think all of the beaches around Kelowna will become larger starting next year.

NO PROOF, NO STATISTICS...........JUST "I THINK".
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Jlabute
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Re: Still not a priority

Post by Jlabute »

PDT wrote:Well, to be fair, he does say "I think". As a critic, where's your proof that he's wrong? Just because what you think is in disagreement with what he thinks, doesn't mean you're right and he's wrong. Where are your models?


The burden of proof is on who makes the claims. He should provide warrant for his position.

Although he says 'I think', he is absolutely sure climate change is real and asserts we HAVE to talk about what NEEDS to be done. It inevitably involves taxpayer money.

He basically is saying this:
Climate change is real! Something might happen more often, no clue, just guessing. We gotta fix it now!
Huxley - "For him, skepticism is the highest of duties; blind faith the one unpardonable sin."

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