Williams Lake

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Glacier
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by Glacier »

Queen K wrote:Do you have any personalized news about the situation there Glace?

Nope other than things are calmer than forecast. They were worried about the White Lake fire jumping the Fraser and coming into town, but it didn't happen... at least not yet.
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dle
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by dle »

A forest fire destroys more than just the fuels it burns, and even with all the knowledge the firefighters have, even they are left surprised when it does the unpredictable and takes out a town thought to be out of harm's way. People's lives are forevermore changed,some lose their jobs as well as their homes, pets, farm animals, forest creatures - just gone - in what seems like the blink of an eye. Some of the ones trying to stop the infernos lose their lives, lose their own homes. It takes many years to heal the people and the forests - and they are left with indelible scars and sometimes ongoing health problems - certainly PTSD in varying degrees.

The Cariboo caught the eye of the monster this year and it wasn't to be denied. I wonder if things could have been different with a few passes with the big guns - the Martin Mars. We will never know because we don't have them anymore.

They say the Martin Mars is a cumbersome big machine, can only fill from some lakes big enough, expensive,only one left and our government at one time decided it wasn't worth it for us to have it etc etc. Those bombers have been around since I was a kid. Used to look at them go overhead in awe - they are humungous! The little bombers can nip in and out quicker but don't carry the big whopping dump the Mars can.

I know I'm rattling a rusty old chain, but In my opinion we need BOTH types of bombers, plus the bucket helicopters in BC. But let's get real - using a bucket helicopter is for little fires at the outset. Too much of our Province is burning every year while they muck about sending the little guys in. More big bombers like the Martin Mars need to be BUILT, new ones. Expensive? You bet - but more expensive than what it costs every year overall in terms of lost income, lost homes, lost lives, lost livestock, lost forest resources, etc etc? I don't think so. The cost to build, maintain, and use could be shared by the Canadian & US governments in a joint fire suppression effort - send them where needed and whack the crap out of the fires WHEN THEY FIRST START. During fire season there is nothing that grates my nerves more than hearing "it started as a controlled burn", or "it's not threatening any homes right now so we will let it burn". Then oops.

How do you stay on top of 180 fires that start by lightening in ONE DAY? You have to let some go.

They say the reason we have so many fires these past years is because we are so good at putting them out and that leaves an abundance of unburned fuel left on the forest floors for the next year. The fires get so big because they let them burn where no homes are threatened to get rid of those built up fuels. Next thing you know it gets away. Maybe in addition to building new Mars type behemoths, we need to figure out how to declaw those forest floor fuels. Maybe there is a non toxic retardant waiting to be developed that can be dumped in July before the fires start - you know, just dreaming stuff up - but we have to do something besides just let it burn.

I've watched the TV show Timber Kings many times - really get a kick out of those guys. Just read where they have suffered big losses in their yard and 140 people now have to be out of work. That's just one business but look how many lives it will affect. Good luck to them all for a quick recovery...

We are a Province of trees - many less every year - and we need to get pro-active with these fires. IMHO there is a definite need for new Mars bombers to be commissioned.

Well, that's just my 2 cents worth - good luck to everyone who is being affected by this year's fires - directly and indirectly.
dle
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by dle »

Well, lookee what I just came across - at least we know why the Mars isn't fighting our particular hell right now. I find the cost of $750,000 (if I read that correctly), that they are saying is exhorbitant, to be peanuts compared to the actual costs of the fire efforts so far don't you?

Bring on our old Hawaii Mars and build new ones - I'm sticking to that song!

http://globalnews.ca/news/3589169/marti ... paign=2015
W105
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by W105 »

this has been shared all over FB about the Martin Mars..



"This is from a heli pilot who is fighting these fires....

For everyone who is sharing and commenting on the Media article about the Martin Mars Please stop!!!

I am just one of hundreds flying on these fires and fighting them for a living. The reason why the Mars is not on the fires is because we have equipment that does a faster more efficient job from smaller lakes which can put more water on a fire per hour.

Water doesn't put out a fire the crews do.

Large aircraft such as what you have read about in this article take crews off the fire lines, sit helicopters on the ground for hours and stop precious production and critical gains. Their water comes out at a force which sends embers out and start spot fires it loosens ground, blows over trees creating hazards and ruins guards put in by crews.

For everyone out there please get these ideas out of your heads and realize there is a reason why we don't use these planes. As for the night ops, this is a great idea in California or in the desert where at night you have long string drops and easy terrain but in BC it doesn't work that way.

There are night crews working and they don't need any more dangers.

Lastly it is an insult to all of us who are working 18 hours days with no food and no place to sleep while we try to save people's houses and animals and you sit at home telling us what is best.

There is so much more to it then just putting water on a fire otherwise don't you think we would do just that!!

Please educate yourselves before posting about this topic and or sharing with others as it is not needed. Look at the photo, no plane can fly in that smoke and heat and no water will put out a kilometer wide, 200 foot wall of fire."
dle
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by dle »

W105 wrote:this has been shared all over FB about the Martin Mars..



"This is from a heli pilot who is fighting these fires....

For everyone who is sharing and commenting on the Media article about the Martin Mars Please stop!!!

I am just one of hundreds flying on these fires and fighting them for a living. The reason why the Mars is not on the fires is because we have equipment that does a faster more efficient job from smaller lakes which can put more water on a fire per hour.

Water doesn't put out a fire the crews do.

Large aircraft such as what you have read about in this article take crews off the fire lines, sit helicopters on the ground for hours and stop precious production and critical gains. Their water comes out at a force which sends embers out and start spot fires it loosens ground, blows over trees creating hazards and ruins guards put in by crews.

For everyone out there please get these ideas out of your heads and realize there is a reason why we don't use these planes. As for the night ops, this is a great idea in California or in the desert where at night you have long string drops and easy terrain but in BC it doesn't work that way.

There are night crews working and they don't need any more dangers.

Lastly it is an insult to all of us who are working 18 hours days with no food and no place to sleep while we try to save people's houses and animals and you sit at home telling us what is best.

There is so much more to it then just putting water on a fire otherwise don't you think we would do just that!!

Please educate yourselves before posting about this topic and or sharing with others as it is not needed. Look at the photo, no plane can fly in that smoke and heat and no water will put out a kilometer wide, 200 foot wall of fire."


Thanks for posting this - you have offered up good food for thought and some reasonable explanations as to why the Martin Mars isn't out there. I have to say it's the most informative and specific post on the subject I've read. I have read upteen times about its size, its cost, its inability to draw from as many lakes as the Fire Boss etc, but never about most of the points in this post. To whoever wrote it, please know that I, at least, am not trying to insult anyone by "thinking I know best" - we just get frustrated with the enormity of the situation and try to throw stuff out there - great ideas have to start somewhere eh? (I am Canadian lol).

If we had been told this information before, (although maybe it is common knowledge but by the number of people like me who are still pounding the Mars drum I don't think so), at least as often as we've been told the standard bla-bla story, perhaps we would all get off the Martin Mars bandwagon. Never doubt that anyone believes the fires can be fought without the brave firefighters on the ground and in the air in any of the aircraft - you are definitely our heroes and we know you are doing your best.

Maybe you should send your post into Castanet or other news sources as an article, or at least a letter to the editor, where it will be more widely read.
W105
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by W105 »

hey dle..I too was one of those people who was on the Martin Mars train..lol then I read this post on FB and learned a few things :)

the Princeton Smilkameen online newspaper posted this article, so it is circulating online..

but yeah, it sure makes sense eh ?? (to me anyways)
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Merry
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by Merry »

One thing that I've noticed that has changed over the years is the lack of adequate fire breaks around towns. In the past (40 years ago) there was usually a sizeable firebreak, but nowadays you frequently see the trees coming right up to the edge of town.

Last year we were camped in Blind Bay and noticed how that town is literally nestled right inside the trees. Picturesque, but VERY dangerous.
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Glacier
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by Glacier »

My dad's neighbour's business has taken a massive financial hit. He's been sleeping on the job site to put out sparks so he doesn't lose more property.

TV’s ‘Timber Kings’ fight to save log homes after B.C. wildfires destroy construction site
The team that builds the massive multi-million dollar log homes on the popular HGTV show Timber Kings is fighting to save two of their build-sites near Williams Lake.

But they’ve already lost one.

Bryan Reid Sr. owns Pioneer Log Homes, and said the fire near 150 Mile House tore through their third site last Friday.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3596955/tvs-t ... tion-site/
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dle
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by dle »

Glacier wrote:My dad's neighbour's business has taken a massive financial hit. He's been sleeping on the job site to put out sparks so he doesn't lose more property.

TV’s ‘Timber Kings’ fight to save log homes after B.C. wildfires destroy construction site
The team that builds the massive multi-million dollar log homes on the popular HGTV show Timber Kings is fighting to save two of their build-sites near Williams Lake.

But they’ve already lost one.

Bryan Reid Sr. owns Pioneer Log Homes, and said the fire near 150 Mile House tore through their third site last Friday.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3596955/tvs-t ... tion-site/


I read about the fire at Pioneer - love the Timber Kings show on HGTV, those guys are a hoot and the homes are so beautiful - was very sad to see they were hit too and I wish them, and all the other Willy's Puddle peeps the best in this fight and hope things calm down soon.
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Glacier
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by Glacier »

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Queen K
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by Queen K »

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#201894

An entire town? Or, the ENTIRE TOWN! It's the year BC burned and it's not even the end of July.
Don't want iced up driveways and roads? Clean out the street drains and gutters. Used to be called "civic duty."
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by GordonH »

According to weather on the news cold front is in PG area moving south, along with that are winds 50k with gusts to 70k.
This could be one hell of evening/night on front lines of the fires.
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by Liquidnails »

WL has been issued an evacuation order. From what I have been hearing, people are being told to head south to Kamloops via hwy 24. Sandman Centre is being activated by the ESS.
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Glacier
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by Glacier »

That's insane. My dad says it's traffic gridlock as everyone is leaving Williams Lake at once. Meanwhile, my brother who lives east of Williams Lake has also been evacuated east to Horsefly (and there's not really any way out of Horsefly except for the Horsefly road, which is closed because of fire).
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Re: Williams Lake

Post by tsayta »

Couple shots of lightning just now north of town showing on the vaisala
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