Waters Edge Condo Fire (Mission Fire)

Grandan
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

Post by Grandan »

OldBlindDog wrote:Wood is the cheapest and most flammable material used to build condos, and is a substandard choice used by cut rate developers. Vancouver requires that condos higher than four storeys be built with concrete. Kelowna... not so much.

The original statement by lesliepaul was as obvious as your overreaction to it.

One of the worst residential fires in recent memory was in London England http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40301289 and that is not a wood frame building. A concrete structure did not save these people.
The notion that a wood frame building is not fire safe is bogus. What makes it safe is that all wood frame materials are covered with Gypsum wallboard, in many cases 5/8" and sometimes double 1/2". Also every floor in every area of the building is either covered with 1 1/2" of concrete or 3/4" poured gypsum.
The reason that this building https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#201336 burned to the ground is because the innards were not complete, the drywall was not finished.
They were rushing to complete the roof because no electrical work, or drywall can proceed when the roof is not complete so the pressure was on.
So, all the studs were exposed and all the safety systems were not there.

If it was true that Buddy was using a torch on the roof without any fire suppression equipment nearby then he is an idiot and the superintendent on this job should never allowed it. Anyone question why we have rules and regulations?
Get ready for rules changes, this new 18 story wood frame residences at UBC is the worlds tallest wood frame building:
http://globalnews.ca/news/2943184/world ... ed-at-ubc/
Most likely this 18 story wood building will be protected by fire suppression sprinklers throughtout.
BTW, many of the apartment fires have been started by BBQ's on the deck to the point that they are generally banned for use on outside decks.
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Grandan
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

Post by Grandan »

monroe wrote:

Offtopic but for those blowing 375-400k plus on a wood frame condo should live in them first before buying. Structurally, theyre deceiving.
Some of those projects in that area have alot of high spec material in them like wood/tile flooring, stone countertops, including high ceilings, etc - all elements that look good but carry sound. You wouldnt want to live below somone in places like those.

When properly constructed, there should be minimal sound transfer between floors. The use of concrete toppings on floors ( a requirement for fire control) is a great sound deadening material, the use of rock wool sound control insulation between floors and sound bars on the drywall ceilings should make sound transfer from suites above a thing of the past.
The fact that no 2 suites share a common stud wall ensures that sound does not travel. Party walls are 2 rows of studs separated by 2" of air space to minimise sound transfer. Apartment buildings are not built like houses, similar but many details to make them safe and isolate each suite from it's neighbours.
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GordonH
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

Post by GordonH »

My biggest problem/concern with new construction wooden structures its not solid wood being used. Its mostly pressed chipboard using some type of resin to bond. Once that resin starts burning you best be somewhere else.
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

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Monday mornings safety meeting:

"Trucks will be here Tuesday to pour foundation. Make sure you have your hard hats and hi-vis vests."
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OldBlindDog
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

Post by OldBlindDog »

Grandan wrote:One of the worst residential fires in recent memory was in London England http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40301289 and that is not a wood frame building. A concrete structure did not save these people.


That fire was caused by a combination of flammable cladding on the outside, and a lack of sprinklers on the inside. The penny pinchers that constructed the building disregarded safety just to save a few bucks.

You are correct that a properly constructed wood framed structure should be safe, and I was too hasty to rush to judgement. However, given the number of condo fires in the area the last few years, I do have to wonder how much corner cutting was involved in the construction of those buildings.
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

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Potentially libelous
Last edited by dieseluphammerdown on Jul 9th, 2017, 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Potentially libelous
Grandan
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

Post by Grandan »

Grandan wrote:One of the worst residential fires in recent memory was in London England http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40301289 and that is not a wood frame building. A concrete structure did not save these people.

OldBlindDog wrote:
That fire was caused by a combination of flammable cladding on the outside, and a lack of sprinklers on the inside. The penny pinchers that constructed the building disregarded safety just to save a few bucks.

You are correct that a properly constructed wood framed structure should be safe, and I was too hasty to rush to judgement. However, given the number of condo fires in the area the last few years, I do have to wonder how much corner cutting was involved in the construction of those buildings.

There is perhaps a lapse in judgement in the management of and maintenance of older buildings. There is a move toward the lowest price on repairs and so on. In the construction of new apartments there are Engineers, Architects, Building inspectors and qualified trades all involved in the process. No one on the team wants a failure and not much happens that is not noticed by overseers and partners. As long as the code is followed with adequate fire blocking and properly fire rated materials there should never be a problem. But there is always the factor of human error such as a pot of boiling oil on the stove, an illegal BBQ, removing the smoke detector, smoking materials in the landscaping and so on.
In the case of the fire over the last few days, the building was incomplete so it was not protected by the multiple systems that work in partnership to keep it safe.
So there is a lesson to be learned here, no roofer should be using an open flame without a second person on guard and fire suppression material must be on site and set up before commencing a burn, just like the fire department tells you to do when you light your burn pile.
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JLives
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

Post by JLives »

Thanks everyone for chiming in. This thread is very informative. I think with our density needs it's time to review our fire sprinkler bylaw.
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

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OldBlindDog wrote:That fire was caused by a combination of flammable cladding on the outside, and a lack of sprinklers on the inside. The penny pinchers that constructed the building disregarded safety just to save a few bucks.

You are correct that a properly constructed wood framed structure should be safe, and I was too hasty to rush to judgement. However, given the number of condo fires in the area the last few years, I do have to wonder how much corner cutting was involved in the construction of those buildings.


The building was under construction and not complete. New buildings that are under construction don't have sprinklers until all the plumbing and testing is done.

From all accounts so far that fire was caused by an idiot, nothing more and nothing less.

I do hope tragedies such as this, and that one in London, compel those with the power to make some changes, specifically in what materials are and are not acceptable in high rise buildings.
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OldBlindDog
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

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Old Techie wrote:
OldBlindDog wrote:That fire was caused by a combination of flammable cladding on the outside, and a lack of sprinklers on the inside. The penny pinchers that constructed the building disregarded safety just to save a few bucks.

You are correct that a properly constructed wood framed structure should be safe, and I was too hasty to rush to judgement. However, given the number of condo fires in the area the last few years, I do have to wonder how much corner cutting was involved in the construction of those buildings.


The building was under construction and not complete. New buildings that are under construction don't have sprinklers until all the plumbing and testing is done.


I was referring to the London fire in the bolded statement, not the fire from yesterday in Kelowna. It was a poorly worded statement, though. The cladding and lack of sprinklers didn't cause the London fire, they just made it a whole lot worse.
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

Post by Noisy Boater »

forum wrote:Monday mornings safety meeting:

"Trucks will be here Tuesday to pour foundation. Make sure you have your hard hats and hi-vis vests."

Would the walls and suspended slab need to be taken out due to heat or will they just start framing again?? Is this a engineering thing or how does that work.?? Does concrete suffer through a fire ??
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tsayta
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

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BCBC needs to be updated. There should be an order to these things. Foundation must pass then framing allowed. Framing must pass then rough plumbing with operational sprinklers must be done. No further work until this is completed. No way they should have put in cladding and windows until this protection was live. Now I guess that the BCBC is just a collection of improvements learned from previous disasters. Time to implement this one
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tsayta
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

Post by tsayta »

Noisy Boater wrote:
forum wrote:Monday mornings safety meeting:

"Trucks will be here Tuesday to pour foundation. Make sure you have your hard hats and hi-vis vests."

Would the walls and suspended slab need to be taken out due to heat or will they just start framing again?? Is this a engineering thing or how does that work.?? Does concrete suffer through a fire ??

The concrete would be compromised
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monroe
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

Post by monroe »

Grandan wrote:When properly constructed, there should be minimal sound transfer between floors. The use of concrete toppings on floors ( a requirement for fire control) is a great sound deadening material, the use of rock wool sound control insulation between floors and sound bars on the drywall ceilings should make sound transfer from suites above a thing of the past.
The fact that no 2 suites share a common stud wall ensures that sound does not travel. Party walls are 2 rows of studs separated by 2" of air space to minimise sound transfer. Apartment buildings are not built like houses, similar but many details to make them safe and isolate each suite from it's neighbours.


Agreed - there should be.
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Bsuds
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Re: Condo Fire at Truswell

Post by Bsuds »

forum wrote:Monday mornings safety meeting:

"Trucks will be here Tuesday to pour foundation. Make sure you have your hard hats and hi-vis vests."


Good luck with that as nothing will be done until the cause of the fire is determined and the property released back to the owners. They will probably have to wait for the insurance money as well unless they have very deep pockets.

If it was the roofer that caused the fire I hope he has enough insurance coverage.

Noisy Boater wrote:Would the walls and suspended slab need to be taken out due to heat or will they just start framing again?? Is this a engineering thing or how does that work.?? Does concrete suffer through a fire ??


Yup, the foundation will have to be redone from scratch.
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