Letting fires burn

common_sense_guy
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Letting fires burn

Post by common_sense_guy »

I have two friends in the helicopter mechanic business. They of course have many friends and acquaintances that are flying helicopters. So my experience is not first-hand but passing along what I've been told by someone that would know. They have been told by many Pilots that there is an obvious lack of reaction to start fighting fires. In his opinion they don't do what's best to put the fire out they do what's best to keep the fire going as long as they can to make the most money. I am encouraging him to give his story so he can be more accurate but the overall gist is they're not trying to put the fire out as soon as they can they're trying to keep them going as long as they can to make as much money as they can. And this last fire that they watched for 24 hours before they started hitting it is a good example because enough people will remember this and maybe they'll be an inquest into it and find out what's really going on and who's making the terrible decisions and maybe their heads will roll when the truth comes out. What pilots have told him and when he continues to say is it's nothing but greed. He's told me stories of Pilots ready to go and their Fire Boss hold them back. Instead of getting it fires at first light they'll wait around an hour or to have a meeting first and then decide what to do. Can you imagine if the fire department did that When they showed up at a fire. People should be furious and we should be starting to ask questions to the people in charge and make them accountable as I truly do believe it is greed driving the fire industry
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ShannonG
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by ShannonG »

This makes absolutely no sense. Fire response is paid for by the BC government, and the helicopter pilots are contracted. Do you really think they are sitting around making sure a fire gets really big before they engage it? There are a million criteria for a fire boss to release choppers to fly, including wind speed, info from the fire's front lines, other birds in the air, flight traffic from the departing airport, blah blah blah. While it may not seem to THEM that they are getting in the air fast enough, they clearly aren't taking a minute to see the bigger picture if that is the story they are telling.
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ferri
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by ferri »

“Weak people revenge. Strong people forgive. Intelligent people ignore.”
― Albert Einstein
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alanjh595
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by alanjh595 »

Forest fires are part of nature. To mess around with nature just causes bigger problems in the future. Any forest fire that is not endangering human life or structure should just be left alone.
We have become too good at putting out forest fires that we are endangering ourselves of a bigger problem in the future.
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common_sense_guy
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by common_sense_guy »

ShannonG wrote:This makes absolutely no sense. Fire response is paid for by the BC government, and the helicopter pilots are contracted. Do you really think they are sitting around making sure a fire gets really big before they engage it? There are a million criteria for a fire boss to release choppers to fly, including wind speed, info from the fire's front lines, other birds in the air, flight traffic from the departing airport, blah blah blah. While it may not seem to THEM that they are getting in the air fast enough, they clearly aren't taking a minute to see the bigger picture if that is the story they are telling.

didn't say it makes sense greed never does .all I'm passing on is what many many in the industry see happening.find one of them and ask there take on it.to clarify I am only talking about the air support decisions being made.
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ShannonG
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by ShannonG »

common_sense_guy wrote:
ShannonG wrote:This makes absolutely no sense. Fire response is paid for by the BC government, and the helicopter pilots are contracted. Do you really think they are sitting around making sure a fire gets really big before they engage it? There are a million criteria for a fire boss to release choppers to fly, including wind speed, info from the fire's front lines, other birds in the air, flight traffic from the departing airport, blah blah blah. While it may not seem to THEM that they are getting in the air fast enough, they clearly aren't taking a minute to see the bigger picture if that is the story they are telling.

didn't say it makes sense greed never does .all I'm passing on is what many many in the industry see happening.find one of them and ask there take on it.to clarify I am only talking about the air support decisions being made.


So you've made an implausible claim without any burden of proof and are leaving it up to us to prove its veracity. Got it.
IF this were the case I think you would see a lot more homes being lost, as fires are notoriously unpredictable and this would be a very dangerous game to play, with very narrow margins. Perhaps there are helicopter pilots who feel they need more 'seat time' but I suspect A) they're getting paid by the load and B) they really don't have any concept of the fact they are a very small cog in a very large machine.
The provincial government compensates its contractors pretty darn well without anyone having to 'pad the books'.
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Fancy
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by Fancy »

Third hand information quite often gets the details wrong. Would be interested in hearing from a pilot.
Truths can be backed up by facts - do you have any?
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dogspoiler
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by dogspoiler »

The pilots are third hand information. They are told what to do and when to do it. The decisions are made higher up. It really seems that better decisions could be made.
It is unfortunate that we have been lied to so often that we may be skeptical of their responses.
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by voice of reason »

i just drove past the westside fairgrounds and it looks like they are hauling in some trailers and setting up camp
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alanjh595
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by alanjh595 »

ShannonG wrote:
common_sense_guy wrote:This makes absolutely no sense. Fire response is paid for by the BC government, and the helicopter pilots are contracted. Do you really think they are sitting around making sure a fire gets really big before they engage it? There are a million criteria for a fire boss to release choppers to fly, including wind speed, info from the fire's front lines, other birds in the air, flight traffic from the departing airport, blah blah blah. While it may not seem to THEM that they are getting in the air fast enough, they clearly aren't taking a minute to see the bigger picture if that is the story they are telling.

didn't say it makes sense greed never does .all I'm passing on is what many many in the industry see happening.find one of them and ask there take on it.to clarify I am only talking about the air support decisions being made.


ShannonG wrote:So you've made an implausible claim without any burden of proof and are leaving it up to us to prove its veracity. Got it.
IF this were the case I think you would see a lot more homes being lost, as fires are notoriously unpredictable and this would be a very dangerous game to play, with very narrow margins. Perhaps there are helicopter pilots who feel they need more 'seat time' but I suspect A) they're getting paid by the load and B) they really don't have any concept of the fact they are a very small cog in a very large machine.
The provincial government compensates its contractors pretty darn well without anyone having to 'pad the books'.


SO......let's summarize, feel free to interject where I may have gone wrong, I know you will anyways.

Some panic stricken observers are criticizing the response time to the request for service.
. . .Ever been a first responder to a car wreck? Do you understand how one's psychological perception becomes distorted while under the influence of adrenaline? Minutes can seem like hours, I know, I have been there, many times.
. . .Pilots do not get paid by the load, they are paid by salary and by contract term. To suggest anything else is demeaning, and irresponsible. That would be like saying that police and firefighters are paid by the number of calls they recieve.

I would like to see ANY evidence to even remotely suggest that contractors are paid above and beyond there contract. That's why it is called a "contract". That means that both sides agree to the terms and conditions within that contract. Anything above or beyond that contract will be very closely monitored by the government (the payer).

Just because your neighbour's hedge is on fire, and you feel that your house might be next, does not give you priority over the 3 story apartment building with people trapped inside. I know it might be important to you, and it may be what you perceive as a really long time before they get to you, but there are other more important priorities above yours.

Sit back, they will get to your hedge as soon as they can.
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kdotnet
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by kdotnet »

Nothing like a local emergency to get the tinfoil hat crowd out.
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alanjh595
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by alanjh595 »

Addendum to my previous post:

Sit down, shut up, and hang on.

You are just a very small cog in a very large wheel. Get over it!
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erik86
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by erik86 »

So let me get this straight, the fires just started earlier this week from the lightning and CASTANET posts on their site "why the delay"

Hmm lets see, the fires are in remote areas, within 24hrs is it expected we have 2000 people on the ground, 100 water bombers/helicopters all of a sudden appear and fight these fires immediately? It does take time for things to happen and it is not easy terrain for anything other than air support to get at.

Not to mention it was super dry and we also got wind...Sometimes it shocks me at how much we *bleep* about stuff. This situation is not to be taken lightly dont get me wrong, but it can be fixed and extinquished immediately.

If people are so unhappy, go take the countless hours of training, then go fight the fires in the scorching heat and see how easy of a job it is and how little affect you can have on a fire if mother nature wants to raise a bit of hell.

I like this website, but some of the topics posted are nonsense.

Crews are trying their best, I drove thru the peachland fire area at 4am today, there was a few fire trucks and some forestry crews. Can't do much when its pitch dark though...
ShannonG
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by ShannonG »

And don't forget this electrical storm came COMPLETELY out of nowhere, even Environment Canada didn't know it was going to happen. There is a fair amount of catchup happening.
ShannonG
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by ShannonG »

alanjh595 wrote:Addendum to my previous post:

Sit down, shut up, and hang on.

You are just a very small cog in a very large wheel. Get over it!


I feel like you are addressing me, but we are in agreement on this issue so I'm not sure why.

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