Letting fires burn

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brentville
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by brentville »

seewood wrote: I can attest to that. I was picked up by a helicopter at 12:00 the first day.


What we are concerned about here is the response time. The time between daybreak and when they actually started putting water, retardant or boots on the ground. If you've fought fire, you know what can happen in 7+ hrs with high winds.
seewood
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by seewood »

Not well know but there was a fire in heavy timber at Ratnip Lake the same time. Early resources available were tasked to that fire.
Last edited by seewood on Jul 24th, 2018, 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tsayta
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by tsayta »

seewood wrote:Not well know was there was a fire in heavy timber at Ratnip Lake the same time. Early resources available were tasked to that fire.

Interesting. We can probably count on a few hands how many people have even been to ratnip. To this day you can still see the dozer lines plowed down to the shore and up the hill to separate the timber. It worked
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brentville
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by brentville »

seewood wrote:Not well know but there was a fire in heavy timber at Ratnip Lake the same time. Early resources available were tasked to that fire.


Thanks for the info seewood. :up:
Well it's good to hear the folks at Ratnip Lake were saved...no wait, there are no f^rging people or infrastructure needing saving at this minuscule puddle in the absolute middle of nowhere. So much for BC Wildfire Service's mandated PRIORITIES of lives 1st followed by property and infrastructure. Someone truly deserves an enema for this one!

Image

...edit...you may have still been talking about 2003...if so, a round of enemas on me :130:
KeepingItReal
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by KeepingItReal »

brentville » Yesterday, 4:50 pm wrote:
“What we are concerned about here is the response time. The time between daybreak and when they actually started putting water, retardant or boots on the ground. If you've fought fire, you know what can happen in 7+ hrs with high winds.”

Not sure if you talking about the 2003 Okanagan Mountain Park fire or the latest batch of fires. If Okanagan Park fire in 2003 I can assure you that resources were on that fire starting at daybreak on day one. If you’re talking about the rash of new fires than yes as I understand it, some fires were prioritize as a lower risk and did not get resources on them until later.

Based on information posted on BCWS website, on July 17, there were a total of 12 new fires that started within the area looked after by Penticton Fire District. The lightning storm started fires over a large area, from just west of Osoyoos to just south of Kelowna. In addition to these new fire starts, the Penticton Fire District had two other fires that were human caused from the day before. So 12 new fires, two current fires, all requiring resources to fight at the same time. It becomes obvious there are more fires than the District has resources to fight them. As a result, fires are prioritized and existing resources are assigned to the high risk fires.

The call goes out for more resources. The closet available resources are in Merritt and Vernon Districts. Both of those districts were also hit by the same lightning storm and have fires of their own to deal with. Resources now have to come from Kamloops. Within 24 hours the first of the additional resources start to arrive and are assigned to fires. Within 48 hours an Incident Management Team with Glen Burgess as the IC, arrives and takes over all the fires. As more resources arrive, the fires deemed a lower priority have resources put on them.

Todate, it looks like BCWS has a handle on all twelve fires. No lives lost, no homes were lost, no major injuries reported. It appears their plan is working.
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by LTD »

they were not there at daybreak on day one I was there and there was NO action on the 03 fire until noon minimum we were camped on the boat out there and phoned it in repeatedly and no action, your facts are incorrect, of course the report says they were on it right away they would be admitting guilt if it said otherwise
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by seewood »

LTD wrote:they were not there at daybreak on day one I was there and there was NO action on the 03 fire until noon minimum we were camped on the boat out there and phoned it in repeatedly and no action, your facts are incorrect, of course the report says they were on it right away they would be admitting guilt if it said otherwise


Hmm. I was dropped off at 12:30 pm the day it started. I walked about a kilometer down the fire guard to almost the beach. From there I walked uphill to eventually run into the IA crews working on the fire guard. All this fire guard, about 1.5 kms, was done pretty much before my arrival. So was all the retardant drops along the line I was walking. I used helicopter drops on trees that were burning at the base of the trees. This was so I could cut them down in a controlled fashion instead of them falling unexpectedly while crews were in the area.
So, I'll call BS to your fact nothing was done before 12:00
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by ShannonG »

seewood wrote:
LTD wrote:they were not there at daybreak on day one I was there and there was NO action on the 03 fire until noon minimum we were camped on the boat out there and phoned it in repeatedly and no action, your facts are incorrect, of course the report says they were on it right away they would be admitting guilt if it said otherwise


Hmm. I was dropped off at 12:30 pm the day it started. I walked about a kilometer down the fire guard to almost the beach. From there I walked uphill to eventually run into the IA crews working on the fire guard. All this fire guard, about 1.5 kms, was done pretty much before my arrival. So was all the retardant drops along the line I was walking. I used helicopter drops on trees that were burning at the base of the trees. This was so I could cut them down in a controlled fashion instead of them falling unexpectedly while crews were in the area.
So, I'll call BS to your fact nothing was done before 12:00


But because the people in the boat didn't see you, you couldn't possibly have been there. :dash:
LTD
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by LTD »

fireguard lol that's a good one now I know your full of it
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by seewood »

LTD wrote:fireguard lol that's a good one now I know your full of it


Now you're dissing the men and women on the fire line that scratched out the guard in hot weather, steep ground. Easy, lets meet for coffee and I'll ask if you were on the guard that day, Oh, forgot, you were on a boat sleeping....
Take it easy LTD. You know as well as me there are no shortage of armchair QB's after the fact. You have fallen into this category on this issue.
When the wind picked up that afternoon, there was no stopping it. Embers were being picked up and starting new fires a long ways from the head of the fire. The ground ad small/medium fuels were extraordinarily dry. I watched a ground fire slowly burn through a retardant line igniting unprotected fuel the other side. A helicopter started bucketing but could not keep up...
This was a park. Closest structure was how many kilometers away? What is the mandate for fire control in a park? Federal level it is let them burn unless private property is in dire consequences of being impacted. provincial level? Tweedsmure park was left to burn after the bugs were left to infest the trees. Ratnip had timber that was going to burn. A priority over a park I'm afraid.
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LTD
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by LTD »

dont even go there with me I also worked on that fire and the incompetence displayed by those in charge was nothing short of frightening my own home was almost lost as a result that very incompetence and its still very visible today, dont even begin to tell me to take it easy I witnessed this comedy show first hand.
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by KeepingItReal »

LTD » Today, 9:18 am wrote:
“they were not there at daybreak on day one I was there and there was NO action on the 03 fire until noon minimum we were camped on the boat out there and phoned it in repeatedly and no action, your facts are incorrect, of course the report says they were on it right away they would be admitting guilt if it said otherwise”

I have researched the heck out of the Okanagan Park Fire and am fully aware of what happen on that first day and the days that followed. Testimonies, chronologies, bomber pilot drop sheets, helicopter logs, dispatch logs, crew logs, officer logs, invoices, interviews all show that there was resources on that fire the first day. 21 firefighters, 2 helicopter pilots, 2 helicopters, 3 bomber pilots, three ‘315’ water bombers, all on that fire before noon. My facts are correct.

What lack of respect and undermining of all the hardwork done by all those people involved that first day. That fire got away but it wasn’t due to the lack of effort on the part of the people on the ground and in the air. Your bitterness is very apparent LTD but that’s no reason to undermine the hard work done by those first responders that first day.
rookie314
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by rookie314 »

Not to forget the winds and the fact we were in a crossover situation. Humidity lower than temperature.
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brentville
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by brentville »

LTD wrote:they were not there at daybreak on day one I was there and there was NO action on the 03 fire until noon minimum we were camped on the boat out there and phoned it in repeatedly and no action, your facts are incorrect, of course the report says they were on it right away they would be admitting guilt if it said otherwise


Thank you for your honesty.
Those that did not witness the 2003 fire from sunrise of the day it took place need not post as more 2nd and 3rd hand info isn't helping.

I'd truly like to hear from the pilot or co-pilot of the copter that flew around the strike at about 6am. He/she could confirm that there was no bucket or nozzle attached and therefore had no ability to put anything out!
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brentville
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Re: Letting fires burn

Post by brentville »

KeepingItReal wrote:LTD » Today, 9:18 am wrote:
“they were not there at daybreak on day one I was there and there was NO action on the 03 fire until noon minimum we were camped on the boat out there and phoned it in repeatedly and no action, your facts are incorrect, of course the report says they were on it right away they would be admitting guilt if it said otherwise”

I have researched the heck out of the Okanagan Park Fire and am fully aware of what happen on that first day and the days that followed. Testimonies, chronologies, bomber pilot drop sheets, helicopter logs, dispatch logs, crew logs, officer logs, invoices, interviews all show that there was resources on that fire the first day. 21 firefighters, 2 helicopter pilots, 2 helicopters, 3 bomber pilots, three ‘315’ water bombers, all on that fire before noon. My facts are correct.

What lack of respect and undermining of all the hardwork done by all those people involved that first day. That fire got away but it wasn’t due to the lack of effort on the part of the people on the ground and in the air. Your bitterness is very apparent LTD but that’s no reason to undermine the hard work done by those first responders that first day.


If you have the helicopter logs then please PM me with the helicopter pilot and co-pilot names or contact info, that initially buzzed the site at about 6am. I'm really getting tired of all this "fake news"! I KNOW WHAT I SAW and want to hear it from the horses mouth that they had a bucket and used it!

edit:
In keeping with stopping future bull from getting flung around like this....
What date/time did the 1st helicopter dump water on the Brent Road fire?

PS: If BC Wildfire Services did nothing wrong in 2003, why does their report avoid the cause of the destruction of 239 homes and the largest evacuation in Canadian history, like the plague?...

Page 20 of "2003 Firestorm": "People can do very little about these forces of nature. Rather than dwell on causes beyond anyone's control, the Review Team focused on how the province, its communities and emergency response systems dealt with the disaster."

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